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Eggenberger, John: my Air Force recollections (November 7, 2007)

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Interviewer: Rundans, Val

An interview/narrative of Colonel John Eggenberger's experiences whilst serving with the Royal Canadian Air Force. Interview took place on November 7, 2007.

Rank: Colonel.

ABSTRACT: Colonel John Eggenberger Interview by Val Rundans November 7, 2007 at Eggenberger residence in Victoria, BC Digital recording length 1:11:28 Map of recording 0:01:39 biographical info- b 1933- rural AB Battle River- very primitive- father in air force 1939 camp followers 0:03:27 4 years in AB oil fields 0:03:34 1955 enlisted in RCAF- no work 0:04:11 training- Calgary recruiting centre- Crumlin base outside London ON- 10 day evaluation- central selection centre- 6 months Winnipeg- no in Winnipeg after 6 wks in Centralia, ON-officer training- 0:10:00 by 1955 fully formed squadrons- 3 months on airborne intercept trainer- B25- then Cold Lake- crewed up with pilot Charlie Leake- “engagement and wedding”- Cold Lake built 1953-54- 100mile wide x 40 mile wide range- 0:14:00 CF-100 three hanger training system- 0:14:56 flew all years in Comox with Charlie- 0:18:00 central training again- one place 0:18:22 9 squadrons: 2 in Bagotville, 2 in Ottawa, 2 in Montreal, 2 in North Bay, 1 in Comox- St Hubert (Montreal) command HQ for Canadian Air Defence Command 0:19:08 Big gap between North Bay and Comox? Protect population centres- only Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal in Canada- all the rest American- Comox sole squadron in west- real target was Seattle- huge military complex- Boeing 0:21:15 co-ordination with Americans before NORAD- we were just flyers 0:21:50 twinned with Paine AFB in Washington- common air space 0:22:30 first real good American plane F-89 Scorpion- Hog- awful but good weaponry- F-106 really supersonic- really make your eyes water- 102 came into service when I left the squadron 0:24:28 scrambling together with American crews 0:25:00 Detection process B36,B47, & B52s emulating Russian aircraft but Russians didn’t have such long range bombers- SAC our friendly enemy- radar coverage started at Sandspit- big radar at Holberg- 300 mile range- DEW line was just a fence- 0:27:33 manager at Holberg running 4 operators on screens- message would go out to NORAD- but NORAD wasn’t in effect till 1957? Something was in effect when I got there- when on DEW line (1960-61) always reported to SAC not NORAD- dealt directly with SAC never dealt with NORAD at all- always SAC who controlled in those days 0:29:59 Ladies behind glass writing backwards? At Holberg- Comox radar called “waterfall”- visit and see-Plexiglas-see this 0:30:30 interception process- fly in pairs- 5 miles behind- see on radar- various scopes: 100, 50, 20,10 mile- on 40 mile couldn’t see much- worked most of time on 20 mile 0:33:25 navigation given by GCI- could see on his radar-controlled intercept 0:34:30 lot of time looking at screen- got friendly- on intercept stuck head in there- shine it on target- after intercept set procedures used to let down 0:37:04 GCI monitoring on radar screen- at Holberg- at station that made detection- no sharing back to Comox- mission info would go back somewhere 0:38:20 1 ½ year in Marville France in CF-100 squadron 0:38:30 Avro Arrow CF-105 designed to replace CF-100? Very ambitious? I don’t know if ambitious or not? A lot of different ways of thinking- had to choose- Arrow designed as more of a self contained airplane than 106- like 101 needed lot of help from ground- CF-105 own detection, own final attack- didn’t need complicated infrastructure on ground 0:40:30 vastly different machine- great legs and endurance- 5 to 6 hours in air w/o refuelling! Remote locations- wouldn’t need infrastructure 0:41:37 Americans didn’t do that- huge ground infrastructure and just a little bit in plane- cost more to have this huge infrastructure in place 0:42:52 BOMARC fiasco- useless piece of kit- Disappointment to myself and Charlie- we were going to be among first to fly Arrow- went to DEW line instead- what is trade off there 0:43:36 CF-101 Voodoo good flying but not interested- improved CF-100- ton of ground support- had to have a coupling- all decisions made somewhere else- ambitious I don’t think so 0:44:45 “good buy”- just for Canada- very ambitious 0:45:00 US decision- max infrastructure min airplane vs max airplane min infrastructure 0:45:24 CF-100 squadrons closed down together in 1961 as interceptors- flew ECM- interfere with radar-they were very good- hard work to get anything done- success rate of attackers not very good 0:47:17 1957-1963 crises? NORAD solution to what problem? Couple USAF w/ CDN air force- would CF-105 made Canada more independent? No- Americans wanted 1 system rather than 2- large factor in cancellation- read Roy’s book on Pearkes chapter 5 0:49:11 Large staffing at US dept of defense according to Pearkes interview by Roy? difference between Canadians and Americans? Their big operation was a joke to us- cast of 1000s doing what 4 would do in CDN air force- they think big- take my F-104 radar detection work- US project needed 1200 people on staff- my proposal 1 DC3 and half dozen- took proposal to Pentagon- they said impossible- wanted it to be their way- didn’t work anyway 0:52:00 Americans wanted 1 system and 105 didn’t fit into it- Pearkes tried to sell- like trying to sell a LADA- who wants it 0:53:05 Americans could have fitted it their way- weapons system tied to ground like 101- Americans only concerned about own country- protect SAC until could attack- SAC bases close to population centres in east 0:55:46 1year posting on DEW line at Cape Parry- 1st CDN air crew to go- DEW line description- never talked to NORAD 0:58:30 originally 2 CDNs and 5 Americans under American major- real story about how we took over DEW line – Eric Nielson minister of defence flew in without permission at TUK- arrested & thrown in jail- calls Diefenbaker- activates CDN take over clause- Eggenberger one of first CDN crew to change system to 2 Americans and 5 Canadians 1:02:10 personnel drop after CF-105 cancelled? no retrained on 101s and 104s or elsewhere- no big drop in personnel- as long as there was something to fly, we didn’t care much 1:03:35 Disarmed during Cuban missile crisis? Our 101s were armed- nuclear weapons- think they did- but I was in Europe- all of a sudden we had twice as many people than we needed- during crisis 1:05:44 late 1962-63 combat ready with nukes 1:07:18 at squadron level focused on job- our picture was big enough- I knew what my job was, it was very simple 1:09:55 stories from Vietnam- layers of generals telling guy on ground what to do- always a chain- CDN armed forces not built that way- once turned loose CO just sits back and waits with nothing to do 1:11:11 CDN air force now very limited- only 3 squadrons- “Jesus Christ”

Interviewee: Eggenberger, John, b. 1933

In Collection:
Contributor Subject Language Keyword Date created Relation
  • Title of paper: "The Point of the Arrow is Sovereignty: Continuities and Discontinuities in the Integration of North American Air Defence".
  • Part of the Military Oral History Class collection of interviews.
Resource type Rights statement Extent
  • 1 sound recording (MP3)
Geographic Coverage Coordinates
  • 60.10867, -113.64258
  • 39.76, -98.5
Additional physical characteristics
  • Original sound recording (DVF) also available.
Physical Repository Collection
  • Canadian Military Oral History Collection
Provider Genre Archival item identifier
  • EJ_754
Fonds title Fonds identifier Is referenced by Date digitized
  • November 7, 2007
Technical note
  • Digital sound recording in .mp3 format at 56 kbps and 16 kHz. Recorded in digital format by interviewer, technical and cataloguing metadata provided by JF and JP. Interview recorded in digital format for UVic Special Collections in 2007. Migration metadata by KD and MT.
Rights
  • This interview has been posted with the understanding that it may be used for research purposes only. Should the interviewee or their heirs have any objections to this interview being accessible on the Internet, it will be removed promptly. Contact UVic Special Collections for permission if using for other than research purposes: speccoll@uvic.ca
DOI
Thumbnail Title Date Uploaded Actions
file details SC141_MilitaryOralHistory_GenericThumbnail
file details Eggenberger_J_0754_01.mp3