Interview with Nicola Harwood

file:///Q/Digitization/vol04/Vault_Transcriptions/Theatre%20Energy/Nicola%20Harwood_transcript.vtt


Transcript for Interview with Nicola Harwood

https://doi.org/10.58066/4j02-wt06

This transcript was created in part by using artificial intelligence, errors and inaccuracies may be present.

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Well, January 17, 2023, interviewing Nicola Harwood here in Vancouver on what, 17th of

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June, did I say that?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay, well, good to meet you Nicola, after all these years.

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Can I ask you about living in Nelson and you were going to DTUC.

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Why did you come to the Kootenays where I

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don't think you were native there or didn't start out there I'm interested

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in people, people I'm interviewing and I'm interested in what brought them

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to the Kootenays to the Slocan Valley etc

Well, DTUC in the theater program actually brought me to Nelson. I came in the summer of,

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would have been probably the summer of 1982

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and I did a workshop, at one of the summer school workshops

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with Jase Vander Veen.

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Oh yeah.

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And I really got the bug.

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I was doing community theater at that point.

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I was living in the East Kootenays.

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And so I applied to the DTUC theater program

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and was accepted and came.

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And so that's what got me there.

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Yep.

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And what were you doing in East Kootenays?

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So were you going to school there?

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No, no, I was just living in Fernie, working.

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Okay, living in Fernie.

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Okay, so DTUC program, okay, I'm glad for that.

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And you graduated in, I think the year it closed,

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well, maybe you didn't graduate necessarily,

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but you finished your studies.

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I went to the end when they closed the school in 1984.

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And then actually a group of us did a whole bunch

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of agitprop theater.

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We toured down to Vancouver universities doing

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DTUC theater. I can't remember, I got some old photos I should I'm for you

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protesting the closure. We toured SFU and UBC and

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Did you have a name for the group

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yes because we had it written on the side of our van in black electrical tape. DTUC something
theatre and Caroline Woodward was a part of it, Wyatt Lamaroo

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Athena George, Caroline Woodward, myself, Wyatt.

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I think there's maybe one other person.

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I'll try and dig up the photo,

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because I'm gonna go look it up.

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Yeah, a photo of that would be great.

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Yes, yeah.

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Were you in the group I took down to Victoria on a bus to protest during the last semester?

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I don't know.

Because I took a lot of theater students in a bus to the Parliament buildings

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of Victoria and we spent a day of classes on the steps of the buildings. Basically it was

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a protest you know we geared the whole thing to that. There was some street theater too.

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I'm not sure. I think we took ourselves down.

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Yeah.

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It's an old van.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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When you were a student at DTUC, what was the nature of your awareness of theater energy?

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You must have been aware of it.

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What was your impression you

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know like when you thought about theater energy what what do you what kind of a

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theater company did you did you see or understand or certainly went to see

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their shows I remember seeing boiler room suite maybe one other I can't

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remember well you know as a student in my early 20s, very impressed.

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They were the professional theater company.

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They were the big guys.

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And yeah, I mean, that was probably the biggest thought was, oh, these guys are the pros.

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These are the professionals in the community. Yeah. Yeah. How did you feel about the kind of
work they did?

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Their choices, you know, of shows and performance methods and all that.

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Did you think they were particularly interesting in certain ways?

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Well, in my own experience was so limited.

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But yeah, I was always very pro-Canadian theater.

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Yeah. I was always very pro-Canadian theater in a family. My mother was a community theater

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director and liked doing Canadian plays, so I had a strong ethic around new Canadian work.

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So they certainly...

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They were doing it.

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They were doing that, and they were alternative hippie that appealed to to me and then I worked
with them prior to becoming AD

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of the company I worked with them in 85 as a designer doing props and lights

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for bread and circuses. Oh okay I was going to ask you the first

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involvement with Theater Energy for you was spread in circuses. Yes, I believe so.

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And you did design.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I built all the props and I did lights.

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I ran the follow spot during the show.

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Okay.

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Interesting you got involved in that show because that show is about their potential

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closing and desperation and getting grants and dealing with the

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government that was not terribly sympathetic and cutting them off and all that yeah I think

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that the company was struggling at that point yeah so yeah so I guess that made you more

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sympathetic to them or more interested in them or how did you because it could have been a downer you know.

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Yeah well you know I was such a newbie it was so fun to be able to give a professional

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contract and I really you know I didn't exactly know what I was doing is a props person. You

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know made stuff and did my best to be a part of it great and

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But yeah, I don't think I had I think you know Nelson at that point was struggling on so many levels

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Yes, school had been closed so many artists so many

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People were leaving the community

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Because there was no work. Oh, yeah, and the people who were staying were you know living very

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marginally. All of us were. It was a down time. Yeah so it wasn't

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an unusual story in that community at that point. This sort of sense of failure really.

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A lot of feelings of failure going around. Okay so interesting your

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first involvement was, direct involvement was bread and circuses. Yeah. I did the poster, the
props, and I ran a follow spot. Ran a follow spot. Yeah.

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Gosh. A huge old follow spot at the Civic Theatre. When I think of my varied theatre career, very

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much like that, I at some point early on I ran a follow spot. Yeah. it was fun. You felt kind of
powerful, hey I'm in control,

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I'm running a show.

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I really enjoyed it actually.

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Yeah, yeah.

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There's a report of your attending a meeting,

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you alluded to it earlier when we talked,

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an early meeting, I guess 85 I'm thinking,

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I have to check that out with Richard Robery, Susie O., Karen White, possibly at the D-Tuck

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Student Union building.

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Sub-pub, yeah that was our office, that became our office.

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And that's at a time of I guess desperation with theater energy and who's going to keep

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going, keep it going and how will we keep going and all that. Can you talk about that

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meeting, memories of that meeting, what the agenda was? You know, I don't have specific

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memories of that meeting. What I know, I mean, my memory of that time was, was Susie and
Karen

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and I were involved in Women on Cue, which was a small community-based women's

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theatre company.

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What have you been doing?

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We've been doing some great stuff, original work, and we were doing, we created work that

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we were touring to rural women's centres on violence against women.

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We did an original Murder Mystery, which was just a big lark, it was so fun.

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The group did Night Mother.

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Oh Night Mother, that play. That was a women on cue that was just before me. That's a big

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American show. So we were doing original stuff Tish Lakes wrote a murder mystery. Oh yeah. All

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women murder it was just hilarious set in the Kootenays and that was a lot of fun. I directed that. And where was it
performed?

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In Nelson. Yeah we performed it at the Anglican Church Hall. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And it was

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a big crew of women that were involved in that. And so we were sort of, and we were just on the

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verge of starting to look for funding. So we were were starting to Karen and I and some of the people who were willing
to do that work

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we're starting to go where can we get some money to support our work and so we

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were just there on in the ascendant in some ways and Richard came to us and

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said do you want this company do you want theater energy because we're done

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oh he was basically saying it was over. Yeah they were so burnt out.

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Do you want it? Yeah do you want this do you want this and I think they saw that we were a group

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of

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people you know they saw our energy. You had the energy. Yeah we were doing original stuff

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and we were ready to professionalize and so we went sure and really I you know I said okay well

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I'll be the artistic director and I didn't even know what that meant at that point.

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You know, we just sort of said, okay,

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and the three of us slotted ourselves in

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to running the company and started, you know.

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At that point, did you become AD or?

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Yeah, yeah, but honestly I just said I wanted to do that

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because I was being the director of the shows.

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And I think Richard was basically leaving town too.

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Yes.

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He got a job in Vancouver with a dance company or something.

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Yes.

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So he was basically out of there.

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He was out of there.

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And there was Theater Energy, you know, no leader.

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Yeah, but it had a project record, a great project record,

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and it had public funding.

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So we stepped in and I started learning how to write grants

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and that was when I, I just take old, you know, old Theater Energy grants, Canada Council, BC Arts Council, and I
started learning how to write grants. And that was when I just take old theater energy grants,

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Canada Council, BC Arts Council,

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and I just sort of copy them with our programming.

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And we brought Cheryl Cashman in

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and we did an all women's original cloud show.

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Was your idea of your group to bring in Cheryl?

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Yeah, she was there, I don't know who brought her in,

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but she came in with the summer school.

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The D-TEC summer school was really a happening thing.

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This is 85 or so, 86.

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86, yeah.

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It was our first year.

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86, 87 was our first season.

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Yeah, she was handy to have her near by.

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Yeah, so she directed that show.

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Can I ask where Judith Cerulli was in all this?

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Was she kind of...

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Judith wanted to stay involved, but there was, you know, it was a there was a little bit of,

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you know, figuring that out because she was with the old company and we were sort of a group of,
you know, lesbian feminists and so that was like, well, who are we together? Yeah,

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but I think there was a commitment on her part.

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She in some ways, you know, courageously said, yes, I'll work with you guys.

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And we hired, so we basically, she came in as a stage manager on quite a few of our first

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shows.

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But then she acted in Odd Jobs and her and I both acted in Odd Jobs.

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And that was our first year and

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we toured that. That was Frank Moore's play.

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So, yeah, she was an experienced professional actress and she was willing to stage manage,

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she was willing to perform and that was kind of the ethic was, you know, whatever you can

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do, hire whoever has those chops to do it.

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And she was very good.

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She was a very good stage manager.

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She knew the business.

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She did everything in theater.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And I think for her, it was a very central part of her life,

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to be involved in the theater.

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So she was willing to

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we had long long arguments about being whether or not we would call ourselves a feminist theater

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company because we were a feminist theater company yeah aluminum cube had no problem with
that yeah

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judith had a struggle with that she was i think worried that it would alienate people or yeah

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well she was all about keeping company going and getting

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bumps in seats, which was an eternal struggle with theater

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energy, playing to small audiences in small towns

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and constantly.

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Yeah, just the cost of doing theater.

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But we, yeah.

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And then eventually, Karen and Susie left,

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and then Judith and Norma and Lee and Bill

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became the collective, and myself.

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And yourself, yeah, as AD.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And Judith became the company manager, I think,

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at that point.

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She was doing management work.

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But we also hired folks, like we had Joanne Brown, I think at that point she was doing management work. Yeah, but we
also hired folks like with Joanne Brown, I think

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Set her name John Brown became our manager for a while

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So people who would do a lot of the budgeting and financial management and you hired

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Detach students. Yep

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I'm looking here the five eighty six season is announced and it was the two of us

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And that was David Topliff and Mary Watson. No, announced and it was the two of us and that
was David Topliff

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and Mary Watson? No that was that was the end of Richard's season that was not our season. Oh
okay.

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That was the end of Richard's season. Okay. So we would have done 86 87. Okay. Yeah yes that
was Mary

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Watson and David Topliff. That was their last show

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Okay, Peter energy did that and yeah, because I auditioned for that show. Okay, Mary got that role
and then

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Brandon circuses. Yeah. Okay was the collective creation. Yes

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The The 86-87 season report, you probably wrote it. Probably.

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Theater Energy had a very interesting and successful

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86-87 season, unquote.

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But it also says that this time word was put out to find

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fresh energy.

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Then several members of Women in Q came forward, along with

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Richard Rorbury, but he

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suddenly left.

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Okay, we've covered that.

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Now we have Odd Jobs.

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Was that your first play as AD with Theodore Henry?

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I think so, yeah.

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00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:41.519
And Meredith directed that.

229
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:45.200
Yeah, well the cast was Judith, Mike Pierce,

230
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.200
there's another Mike Pierce, another Detuck.

231
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:48.320
Yep.

232
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:49.639
Nicola, you.

233
00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:50.480
Yeah.

234
00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:51.320
And Meredith directed.

235
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:52.139
Yep.

236
00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:52.980
Yeah.

237
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:54.419

18



Then Cullen the play.

238
00:14:54.419 --> 00:14:55.259
Yes.

239
00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:59.279
Judith, Ruby, Lee, created the play.

240
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.100
Yeah.

241
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.899
The cast was Karen, Lyle Moon,

242
00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:04.960
Nicole, you.

243
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.639
Yeah. Daryl Keeler. And after that, Clowns Hold Moon, Nicole Yoo, Daryl Keeler and after that Clowns Hold

244
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:14.080
Up Half the Sky with the Cheryl Cashman directed. That was our Canada Council show that year.

245
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:19.840
Yeah and that seemed to work well. I was really proud of that show.

246
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:25.000
It was really you know off the charts in terms of anything that anyone had seen.

247
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:27.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Clown Show.

248
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:32.000
Yeah, full on Clown Show. And people did great work. And it was a really strong cast.

249
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.000
And it was weird and bizarre and quite lovely.

250
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.000
Did it just play in Nelson?

19



251
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:43.000
Yes, it just played in Nelson. We did not tour that. Oh no, we did tour. We took it down to Women in View.

252
00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.000
Women in View, the next year though, right?

253
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:53.000
The next year, I did the set on that show, myself and Rachel Yoder designed and built the set.

254
00:15:53.000 --> 00:16:07.000
So I went into being a designer, so we did a minimal version of the set, we brought it down to the
Fire Hall and we played the Women of View Festival. Sure. Yeah. This first year means it did though, it played only in
Nelson at the Capitol Theater?

255
00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.200
At the studio, studio.

256
00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:10.679
Studio, yeah, 80.

257
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:11.519
80, yeah.

258
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:12.340
Yeah, at D-Tuck, yeah.

259
00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:13.179
Yeah.

260
00:16:13.179 --> 00:16:15.480
Yeah, glad you kept that going.

261
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:16.320
Yeah.

262
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:17.159
I did the first show in there,

263
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:17.980
I directed the first show.

20



264
00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:18.820
The studio is a great space.

265
00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:20.639
The very first, yeah, loved it, yeah.

266
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:28.600
It was brand new and I did a Bernada Alba, the House of Bernada Alba, the Lorca

267
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:31.240
play.

268
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.399
Many and all women, pretty well all women cast.

269
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:40.399
And we had a strong student body of women and I was happy to do that.

270
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:51.200
It worked well. Okay, 87-86 season report by you, you were proud and

271
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:57.200
satisfied with our 87-86 season accomplishments. Do you recall, I don't

272
00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.799
have notes on that right here, do you ever recall what was notable about that

273
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:06.200
season, that second season for you? The second season?

274
00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:07.019
The 87?

275
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:08.940
The 87, 88 season, yeah.

276
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.160
You were 80.

277
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.160

21



We did the environment shower that runs good some rust.

278
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:18.920
Yeah.

279
00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:20.880
There was, not in my backyard, it runs good some rust

280
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.960
and I can't remember the order.

281
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.000
Yeah, yeah, I can look at my notes sometime.

282
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.000
They both were at 12, those two?

283
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:35.000
Yep, they were, they were big shows. We did them at the Capitol, so we moved from, both of those shows were at the
Capitol,

284
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.000
because the Capitol opened in 86, 87.

285
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:39.000
They were both collectively created.

286
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:44.000
They were both collectively created. We toured Runs Good, Some Rust, that was the tour that
kind of killed us.

287
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.000
In 1990 we remounted that and toured it.

288
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.000
What did that tour kill you? Almost kill you?

289
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:56.000
Oh, it was just too expensive and not enough income. I think we were doing some kind.

290
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:02.000

22



I think we had guarantees from the Arts Councils and the small communities, but somehow the
expenses just got away from us.

291
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:09.400
I think I've got notes somewhere that there was a deficit. You lost money on it. Yeah, yeah. And it
could have been that we,

292
00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:16.240
you know, had some profit sharing deals as well as guarantees from Arts

293
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.039
Councils and the profit sharing deals didn't come through. Yeah, yeah. We never

294
00:18:20.039 --> 00:18:22.920
had much luck playing in Vancouver because we just didn't have an audience

295
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.559
here and that was tough on us when we were trying to do Vancouver. I know you tried a

296
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:32.359
number of times yeah yeah yeah yeah who's theater energy yeah exactly it was

297
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.160
in the small communities we'd always get an audience because the Arts Council

298
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.519
would be producing it so they knew their audience and people would come because the Arts Council.

299
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:51.839
And you have a guarantee which is always nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who are the core members? I find the
notes often talk about Theatre Energy, the

300
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.559
core collective members and that seemed to be the important bunch. Yeah, so Susie and

301
00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:04.119
Karen and I and then Susie and Karen left. Susie stayed on as an actor and then... But

302
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:05.880
not part of the collective. Well... Kind of unsure. then. But not part of the collective.

303
23



00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.720
Well.

304
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:07.559
Kind of unsure.

305
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:08.920
I think she was part of the collective.

306
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.359
I think she stayed on longer than Karen,

307
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.279
but she had to go away.

308
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.000
Her mom was ill in Australia.

309
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.200
She had to leave first.

310
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:17.599
She left for quite a while.

311
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:22.480
But then Norma and Lee Sims and Norma,

312
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.579
Patric, Bill Duggan and Judith and I, I think were,

313
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:30.559
we kind of held the fort for those years.

314
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:34.400
Yeah.

315
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.900
Judith, the main estate.

316
00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:36.839
It was an enormous amount of work.

24



317
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.839
I mean, we had money to pay a part-time,

318
00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:45.960
two very part-time salaries to run the company.

319
00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:51.559
So we were, and we would be living,

320
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:53.119
I remember Canada Council,

321
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.799
when they came to see the clown show,

322
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.400
our Canada Council officer asked us,

323
00:19:57.400 --> 00:19:59.480
so how do you guys survive?

324
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.440
And Susie looks kind of sheepish,

325
00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.680
and she said, well UIC, you need left.

326
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.400
He said, oh the arts wouldn't exist in Canada without UIC.

327
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.960
Because, you know, I mean I had a guy at the manpower office

328
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.119
say, well I guess you'll know when any theater's coming

329
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:15.319
to town for work.

330
25



00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.279
And I'm like, yeah, because we were bringing

331
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.319
what money there was in.

332
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:22.400
Our seasons were about 100,000 a year.

333
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:24.079
We were bringing into the community

334
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:28.559
to distribute to the theater artists to do work. And then, you know, we'd all get our weeks and then

335
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.079
we'd go on UIC for the rest of the year. But we had to keep doing all the work to keep

336
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:52.200
the company going. So it was either Not in My Backyard or it was runs Good Sum

337
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.200
Russell.

338
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:54.200
I think it was Not in My Backyard.

339
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:56.519
We hired Terry Snellgrove to direct that.

340
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.920
That was, yeah, the collective Not in My Backyard.

341
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:02.799
Terry Snellgrove came up and directed.

342
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:03.799
Yeah.

343
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:05.859
The cast Lyle Moon, Celeste,

26



344
00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:11.779
Susie O and you. Yeah. Played at the Capitol Theatre. Yeah. But the audiences

345
00:21:11.779 --> 00:21:16.339
were not great. I think that was our big shift to the Capitol. It was a little

346
00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:22.380
tough because it's a big house. Yeah. Just due to 80 it's easy to fill. Yeah. I know there was talk of
and

347
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:26.559
hopes that I saw Richard Robery made a presentation

348
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.200
a bit earlier than this to the Capitol Theater,

349
00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:32.519
some kind of group, important group in Nelson

350
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.220
that developed in the Capitol Theater,

351
00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:38.680
that Theater Energy would be happy

352
00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.160
to be a resident company there.

353
00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:42.539
That would be the home.

354
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:45.680
I know that never worked out. Can you talk about

355
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.500
why it didn't work out? I know it was an effort to do it. It's interesting because I was on

356
00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.759
the board during the opening. That's where I saw that. You were on the board and you

27



357
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.279
were on the AD of Theatre Energy. Why didn't that work? Why couldn't they become resident

358
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:01.400
there? It seemed like a... You know I don't specifically remember though. It never really

359
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:13.140
felt like a fit. Like the board at that time were pretty you know the very conservative sort of you
know

360
00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:19.400
the idea that it was a presenting house it wasn't a producing house yeah yeah I

361
00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:26.000
don't I I didn't feel like our aesthetic was compatible I honestly and I didn't feel like our aesthetic
was compatible, quite honestly, and I don't know if that was, you know,

362
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.000
if I didn't pursue it or it wasn't pursued.

363
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:37.000
Well, Richard seemed to have been pursuing it. He made a presentation, a pretty big one, early on,
saying,

364
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.000
we will become, you know.

365
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:47.640
And I think that, if I remember correctly, there was some discomfort on the board level with it.

366
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:51.720
There was personality conflicts

367
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:53.559
between Pheebs on the board and Richard,

368
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.799
and that didn't, it just didn't go forward.

369
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:57.640
Then he left.

28



370
00:22:57.640 --> 00:22:58.960
And then he left.

371
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.200
And I never thought it would have been a good fit anyway.

372
00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:04.799
The aesthetic of the Capitol Theater was very much

373
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:12.200
as a presentation house, community based work. Our stuff was a little too weird and challenging.

374
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:18.480
It would have been a particularly good fit with the climate of the Capitol. Even though

375
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.279
I was involved, I did their summer theatre program for a couple of years.

376
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:23.279
That's the Capitol?

377
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:29.039
Yeah, I directed there and tried to do new Canadian work and tried to kind of bring,

378
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:36.359
we brought a lot of university students in to do those programs.

379
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:42.140
So the Summer of Theatre program at the Capitol was sort of an offshoot of doing local work

380
00:23:42.140 --> 00:23:43.140
with the actual work.

381
00:23:43.140 --> 00:23:45.119
Let me ask you a general kind of question.

382
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.019
During your time as AD of Theatre Energy,

383
29



00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.160
what was the struggle like?

384
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.519
I mean, how much support, real support,

385
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:57.579
and solid support did you get from the company,

386
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.880
as well as other sources, but mainly from the company.

387
00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:04.359
You know, like we've all been in theater companies

388
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:07.720
where there's tremendous support all over the place and everyone does this and like, you know, like we've all been in
theater companies and where there's tremendous support all over the place and everyone does this

389
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.799
and then you know it works out it's a great team and that thing rolls along

390
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:19.279
and it's great. What was Storple like for you as AD generally in terms of getting

391
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:29.200
support, good support, to make things work? I think we did pretty well considering the stresses
that you're under as a touring company

392
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.279
when you're all stuck in a van together and sleeping in motels and not getting enough sleep.

393
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:44.960
We had our struggles, sometimes philosophically, but on a practical level, I feel like we did okay.

394
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.079
Really, when I think about the stresses

395
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:48.079
that we were under.

396
30



00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.279
Can you talk about the philosophical struggles a bit?

397
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:55.400
Well, what I said earlier about Judith was not comfortable with us calling ourselves

398
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:59.920
a feminist theatre company, and that was kind of at the core for some of us, because we

399
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:05.079
were lesbian feminists and we weren't into weren't into hiding that that was I

400
00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:08.819
think that was the strength of the company in terms of the strongest work

401
00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:14.359
we did was coming out of that political viewpoint the clown show came out of

402
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:19.740
that the Malefica came out of that those were probably the two shows I was proudest of

403
00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:25.140
yeah yeah I can see that yeah I think they had the most interesting artistic choices

404
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:27.559
were made in those shows.

405
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.019
And so that was a bit difficult

406
00:25:30.019 --> 00:25:32.180
because it felt like that was actually,

407
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:35.180
you know, the fuel in the engine.

408
00:25:35.180 --> 00:25:38.259
But Judith was not comfortable with it.

409
00:25:38.259 --> 00:25:42.039
And so that became a kind of, it just got stalled.

31



410
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:43.980
We never went forward with it.

411
00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:45.119
We spent, you know long

412
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:50.720
long hard to ignore Judith because she you know would garner so much respect

413
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:56.839
because she was she was she had done it all and brought the company from onward

414
00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.759
and stayed with us yeah yeah honor that I guess yeah yeah she's strong

415
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:04.299
personality strong personnel yeah yeah and so was I so that was always

416
00:26:04.299 --> 00:26:07.039
interesting but we did okay you you know, we came through

417
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:12.319
our disagreements, I think, with a lot of mutual respect. And honestly, you know,

418
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.279
and related to that is we couldn't have done it without the lesbian community.

419
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.599
You couldn't, you say you couldn't have done it without them?

420
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:23.359
No, because we had these huge pockets of volunteers who would show up.

421
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:24.319
They came and...

422
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.920
And pulling, you know, hiring people who were trained carpenters. That was the

423
32



00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:34.160
community that we drew on because that was my personal community.

424
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:37.920
So there was a Lee and Norma and I were all part of that community.

425
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:45.599
So that was a big support system when we did a show was that community support. So important, yeah.

426
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.200
And they believed in what we were doing. That's great. Because when we did the work that was

427
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:55.759
feminist in nature there was a connection there. And there's certainly audience there. Yeah.

428
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:03.200
Yeah. A bit of a side note here, as AD in 1990 you sponsored the House of Memory.

429
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.680
Yeah. By the Special Delivery Moving Theater of Vancouver,

430
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.519
which now is called the Moving Theater Vancouver thing, you know, yeah, okay, we've heard about

431
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:17.920
them. How did the connection between Theater Energy and Special Delivery Moving Theater

432
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:22.079
come about? I was surprised to read about that. It sounds really... You know, I think Terry just

433
00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:29.000
reached out to us, Terry Hunter, it seems to me he just reached out and said, would you be into
sponsoring us?

434
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.440
Oh, so he was one of the directors.

435
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.039
Yeah, Terry Hunter and Savannah Wallinger, the co-directors of that company.

436
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.079

33



The two, yeah, that's right.

437
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:40.359
And I had seen their work at the Children's Festival and it was gorgeous.

438
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:43.720
So he reached out to you in Vancouver?

439
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.460
In Nelson, I have a feeling he just called me up and said,

440
00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:48.900
would you be willing, because they were looking for folks

441
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:52.619
to ground a residency for them.

442
00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:56.099
And so we did at Studio 80.

443
00:27:56.099 --> 00:27:57.759
And it was hard work, because we had

444
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.339
to convince people to get involved in that residency

445
00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:02.460
and be a part of it.

446
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:12.000
So it was not a small thing, hosting them. Good, okay. I find that exciting, reading about that. And they came back for a
second summer too, I believe.

447
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.000
And their work was very abstract compared to our work.

448
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:17.000
Yeah, yeah.

449
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:21.000
It took some, you know...

34



450
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:23.000
Kind of universal, symbolic...

451
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.000
Yeah, coming out of the dance world a lot. Yeah, that's right.

452
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:28.000
Dance and costume was their stuff and we were much more narrative.

453
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.000
Well, Savannah and Terry Hunter, is it?

454
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:32.000
Yeah.

455
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.000
They were from that world.

456
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:34.000
Yeah.

457
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.000
And they're still doing stuff in East Vancouver.

458
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.000
Oh, they do the Heart of the City Festival.

459
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.000
Yeah, they've become very much community engaged theatre practitioners.

460
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.000
Yeah, they're very strong.

461
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.420
Yeah. Yeah, and they're old friends.

462
00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:50.099
You know, we remain connected from that.

463
35



00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:53.539
Okay, Survivors, May of 89.

464
00:28:53.539 --> 00:28:58.380
Just following NIMBY, a collective was,

465
00:28:58.380 --> 00:29:01.700
I'm reading notes here, collective was formed with you,

466
00:29:01.700 --> 00:29:04.299
Lyle Moon and Lee Sims.

467
00:29:04.299 --> 00:29:06.460
Headline Theater was asked to give a

468
00:29:06.460 --> 00:29:11.880
workshop and there was an application to perform Survivors a stage reading at the

469
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:16.720
Women in View festival in Vancouver. Also Pamela Hawthorne formerly of a new

470
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:23.160
play center gives a four-day workshop on this thing called Survivors. Now I'm a

471
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:25.279
bit confused about Survivors. Is that what

472
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:32.319
later became For Adults Only or was it a separate show?

473
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:34.319
I don't know what For Adults Only was.

474
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:37.319
Was there a production called just Survivors?

475
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:43.319
It was a play written, I think the idea was that it would be a school show.

476
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.599
Yeah. Written about

36



477
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:55.039
childhood sexual abuse. So that was the topic. Yeah. And I don't think it got, it

478
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:00.440
didn't get sort of past that development stage. We never did produce it. Oh so

479
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:05.519
never never finished. Okay. Okay. That's only was that like a cabaret or something.

480
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:10.799
That's why I was asking, yeah, because I'm not sure it ever was scripted or finished or

481
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.640
I don't see any record of it being produced. No, it never got past development and I don't

482
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:18.960
know when it fell away. I don't know if it didn't. After all that nice workshopping with important

483
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:26.279
people and oh yeah. Well, now you pronounce it Malefica?

484
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:27.279
Malefica.

485
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:28.279
Malefica.

486
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:29.279
Yeah.

487
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.279
That's a biggie.

488
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:31.400
I think that's a biggie.

489
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:39.000
December 89, December 89, the writing collective of you, Norma Duggan, Rita Moir, whom I've

490
37



00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:40.720
been in touch with and I will interview.

491
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:49.480
I was supposed to interview her in the Slocan Valley visit in September, part of my list

492
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:51.200
of people to see.

493
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.880
And just before I went she suddenly wrote, oh I've got a, sorry I won't be there, I've

494
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:56.880
got to go to Winnipeg.

495
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:59.400
I think her mother died or someone found me.

496
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:04.440
She had to suddenly throw bags in her car and drive to Winnipeg and go to Seattle first

497
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:05.759
for some reason or other.

498
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.680
It was a panicky thing and it can't be there, sorry.

499
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:13.039
Next time I'll get her though when I'm a loner or something.

500
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:20.759
Anyway, that was the writing group that produced the beginnings of the play.

501
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:25.000
The first draft was sent to the feminist historian Judith McKenzie.

502
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.240
The New Play Center also critiqued it.

503
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.880
And Kate Weese, the director, also got an early draft.

38



504
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.880
So I guess there was all input.

505
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:41.240
Did you recall, can you speak generally, the kind of input you were getting from that first

506
00:31:41.240 --> 00:31:44.160
draft you produced for these people?

507
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.519
Was there strong input and

508
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.519
changes made or how did that work?

509
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:54.240
Yeah, I don't have a lot of, you know, I remember more the three of us. Like I had the vision

510
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:59.839
of the play, like it was a very visual vision of the burning out on the water, so I had

511
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:00.839
envisioned the play.

512
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:02.240
Yeah, what an end that was.

513
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:06.480
Yeah, so I had this vision and so then I got Rita and Norma in the room and said,

514
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:07.799
so here's the vision.

515
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:08.920
Let's write this play.

516
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:10.880
It's going to be set outside.

517
39



00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:14.400
And so I had the ideas for it.

518
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:16.880
Good for you.

519
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:21.359
And then while we were deep in research and writing,

520
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.119
the Montreal massacre happened.

521
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:24.680
Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that.

522
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:30.359
Very effective. What an impetus to it. Yeah, yeah. My God, it's happening again. Yeah, we were deeply in the

523
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:36.039
research and so we were kind of knocked out by that. God yeah. Those women's names

524
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:41.160
ended up in the show. At the end there's a whole litany of reading out the names

525
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:48.019
of all these women that we had researched who had been I don't remember the script. Yes at the very end of the show
there's these names

526
00:32:48.019 --> 00:32:58.960
that get read. And then Montreal, the women murdered in Montreal were added to that list. So we
did this whole list of historical and black contemporary names.

527
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:07.240
Yeah Kate came in I think Kate was very helpful in terms of theatricalizing it.

528
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:08.240
Yes.

529
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:11.799
She really brought, she brought it out of story into this sort of theatrical, how she

530
40



00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:14.519
could visual, visualize it.

531
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:15.519
Good for her.

532
00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:16.519
Good director.

533
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:24.400
Yeah, but it was our, you know, our group's vision for the tent and Bill, bless him, he

534
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.039
found that, the old flying heart tent from the

535
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:31.359
from the Slocan Valley he found that old canvas tent that looked like a

536
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:35.559
witch's hat it really was an old circus tent literally that this hockey team

537
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:40.039
yeah used to be with the Flying Heart band yeah who toured around the Kootenays

538
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:45.240
in the 70s so it was a really a vintage piece of Kootenai history.

539
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.240
I'm not sure it was a picture of that.

540
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:49.240
I don't know if there is any pictures of it.

541
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.240
There it is. There's our setting on the lake.

542
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:55.240
We almost lost it. We had a wind come up.

543
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:57.240
We were at people's literally standing,

41



544
00:33:57.240 --> 00:33:59.240
holding ropes, standing on those big metal things,

545
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.240
and trying to keep it.

546
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.240
We had rain and the weather was such a part of it

547
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:05.200
because it was very loud

548
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:07.839
in there and

549
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.820
And bill figured out how to light an effigy out on the water with this canoe. What an ending my god

550
00:34:13.820 --> 00:34:15.820
Yeah, you had a burning. Yeah

551
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:21.920
Fire out on the water and safe because it's on the water. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah

552
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:29.099
So yeah, so then Kate was a great part of developing it and we had a huge show

553
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.099
We had a whole bunch of students coming from the high school

554
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:36.440
Lucas Myers who's now a contemporary theater artist in Nelson. He was one of the students

555
00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:42.440
Charlie Ross who's gone on to went on to tour his one man Star Wars

556
00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:46.559
Charlie Ross him. Yeah. Yeah.? Yeah yeah yeah he was a student.

557
42



00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:49.480
Yeah yeah they were all students at the high school so they were all part of

558
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.280
Malefica because we brought on all these high school students to be for the crowd

559
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:58.920
scenes and so it was a big show. So those students were employed as crowd.

560
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:06.099
They had to be rehearsed. Yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they came in and did this big
party scene.

561
00:35:06.099 --> 00:35:08.980
And who was the drama teacher's fault?

562
00:35:08.980 --> 00:35:12.380
I think it was Jeff Burns at that point.

563
00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:14.699
Or it might have been whoever it was just prior to him.

564
00:35:14.699 --> 00:35:17.219
There must have been a drama teacher, I imagine.

565
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:19.579
I think it was Jeff Burns.

566
00:35:19.579 --> 00:35:21.340
Oh, no, he was at the junior high school.

567
00:35:21.340 --> 00:35:22.219
It was somebody else.

568
00:35:22.219 --> 00:35:26.400
No, it was Robin Shepherd, maybe. Oh. No, it was Robin Shepherd, maybe?

569
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:28.159
I think it was Robin Shepherd,

570
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.400

43



because she was really a great drama teacher there.

571
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:34.199
It sounds like this was a fabulous, epic, well received.

572
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:36.360
It was huge, we even thought we'd have a horse at one point.

573
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:38.320
I don't know if we ever did have a horse,

574
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:41.219
but we did have, you know, we started it,

575
00:35:41.219 --> 00:35:42.760
the audience started outside,

576
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:46.400
and it came over the hill beating a drum.

577
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:48.159
Michael Graham who had been,

578
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.519
who had come up with Terry and Savannah,

579
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.800
he came back and became part of it,

580
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:57.280
stage manager and part of the production.

581
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.679
He ended up moving to the Kootenays after that.

582
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:01.639
So the audience started out outside.

583
00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:02.480
Outside, yeah.

44



584
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:05.800
And they saw this image coming over the hill kind of thing.

585
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:06.800
Yeah, and drumming.

586
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:07.800
Drumming.

587
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:08.800
And they get brought into the tent.

588
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:10.800
Then they were brought into the great stuff.

589
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:12.800
And then they're brought out at the end.

590
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:13.800
Great stuff.

591
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.800
And this big sort of litany of voices and then the fire out on the water.

592
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:18.800
Great stuff.

593
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.800
Yeah.

594
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:20.800
Wow, epic theater.

595
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:21.800
Yeah, it was a really wonderful show.

596
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:22.800
Yeah.

597
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:23.800

45



I loved it.

598
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:24.800
And good audiences.

599
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:26.000
Yeah, really packed. And it didn I loved it. And good audiences. Yeah, really packed. People loved
it.

600
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.000
Didn't lose money.

601
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.000
It paid for itself.

602
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.000
I don't think so. I think we broke even probably.

603
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.000
Yeah. What a show that was.

604
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000
Let's get some images of that.

605
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:39.000
Let's see the tent.

606
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.000
I know. I just don't like that era.

607
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:43.000
We just didn't walk around with cameras in our pockets.

608
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:44.000
No, no.

609
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.400
Yeah. I don't think we have very cameras in our pockets. No, no. Yeah.

610
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:48.000
I don't think we have very many images of it. Yeah, yeah.

46



611
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.840
I think I sent you maybe what I had of the cast and crew.

612
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:53.360
Yeah. How are you for time?

613
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:53.860
I'm good.

614
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.360
I'm actually nearing the end of this session.

615
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:00.559
Which time did you resign as AD?

616
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:02.559
1991?

617
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:13.860
It was right in there, 1991. Shortly after... It shortly after the end of the tour. Malefic was the last
big main stage show that I did.

618
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:32.039
Yeah and then we did a tour of Run's Good Some Rust. Yeah and after that? My notes here say by
mid 91 there's a collective meeting at Judith's house and she takes on

619
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.079
the position of AD.

620
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:39.159
But when I look at the meeting, there are minutes for the meetings they had and when

621
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:49.320
I look at the minutes there's often an agenda item referencing possible closings. How can we
survive? And if we do

622
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:55.679
close, how will we do it? That kind of thing. Did you ever take part in any meetings like

623
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:56.679

47



that?

624
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:04.199
I think so, probably, because I just really burnt out at that point. I've been five years

625
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.780
holding that company together. Yeah, and

626
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:14.519
Your five years were 86 to 91. So yeah, so when I say five years that must have been 91

627
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:26.000
Maybe the spring of 91 or so when I said I'm done. I need to step away. Yeah.

628
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.519
Yeah, and some folks in the community really wanted to see it continue and came in, but they
didn't have a lot of experience. Judith, you know, kind of hung in there.

629
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:44.000
Yeah. You know, it's a big gap in the archive at UVic. You know, I've searched a number of times

630
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:46.000
for more information on the closing.

631
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:53.360
I'd like to find out exactly what was said, what was done, who did what, and what they

632
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.360
did to kind of…

633
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.360
How do you close down a theatre company?

634
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.360
What do you do?

635
00:38:58.360 --> 00:38:59.360
I don't find…

636
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:00.360
How do you bury the bodies?

48



637
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.000
The archives are very quiet and silent.

638
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:04.000
There's no kind of…

639
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.960
Well, it's really tough because there's a sense of failure at that moment that we just can't continue.

640
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.400
You know I remember you know part of the decision for me was

641
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:17.679
dealing with the storage unit you know you go down to the storage unit and it's

642
00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:23.159
this massive thing full of old sets and and was it a was it a room was it a

643
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:25.000
trailer? You know a storage facility they You rent a storage unit. So we had this huge tall storage
unit with these massive big flats and all this crap. And it's like, I'm it.

644
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:26.000
Where was that?

645
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.000
Nobody else on staff.

646
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.000
Was that at Nelson?

647
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.000
Like a commercial big storage place?

648
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:30.000
Yeah, a commercial storage place.

649
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.000
Because we had to store our stuff.

49



650
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:32.000
So again, I would ask, what happened to all that stuff?

651
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.000
Where did it go?

652
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:34.000
I think a lot of it went to the dump.

653
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:35.000
It was all flats and boxes.

654
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:36.000
Well, yeah, it was a big storage facility.

655
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:37.000
It was a big storage facility.

656
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:38.000
It was a big storage facility.

657
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.000
It was a big storage facility.

658
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.000
It was a big storage facility.

659
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.000
It was a big storage facility.

660
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.000
It was a big storage facility.

661
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:43.000
It was a big storage facility.

662
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:44.000
It was a big storage facility.

663
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:45.679

50



It was a big storage facility. It was a big storage facility. It was a big storage facility. It was a big storage facility. It was
a commercial storage place, you know, because we had to store our stuff. So again, I would ask, what happened to all
that stuff? Where did it go?

664
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.360
I think a lot of it went to the dump.

665
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:47.860
Yeah.

666
00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:49.360
You know, it was all flats and boxes.

667
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:54.079
Well, yeah, if you don't pay your bill and quit that storage unit, someone's got to...

668
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:55.280
You've got to get it out of there.

669
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:00.159
So we had to take it out and put it all in the dump and we had to storage it up at the sub pub.

670
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.639
And so that, you know, the weight of kind of carrying around a theater company

671
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.239
just became too much for me.

672
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:08.639
I was really tired at that point.

673
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:14.679
I've got notes here on the state of theatre energy in the mid-91.

674
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:19.920
According to Judith, and this is a list I've got from Judith, her notes, basically saying

675
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.840
here's what we have.

676
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:28.199

51



An accrued deficit. a collapsed collective, a ready