Interview with Lorna Wánosts’a7 Williams in Gamla

The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS LORNA ... history that, um, our people have lived here for thousands of years and, um, it’s the same, it’s the same where I am, there’s just more evidence here of, of the past. Where our past, even though there’s points where you can see that there has been lots of time gone by but it’s, there at home, it seems to be more always in the present because you don’t see all of the layers quite so much. GARY Where are the layers, where do you look for the layers in Mount Currie? LORNA The layers I guess come from the stories, the stories from the, the old people and the songs that, um, you know, that they sing about the different eras, the different times. BEEP (SLATE NO: 26 TAIL) BEEP BEEP LORNA ... when I was, um, ah, the oldest thing that I learned about was uh, that I remember, when I was about 12, I was sitting with my aunt, just across the street from our house and she was telling me about the, about creation and how the people came to, to live in Mount Currie and she was telling me about the, about the mountains and the, and how the, the people ended up on this, on this rock, this rock cliff. SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS And, um, and they stayed there for awhile and the water started to recede and, um, ya, and they, and they found all of these white, small white fish that was left and so that’s what they ate, that was ... so that’s the oldest, I guess. GARY And did you know where this mountain was? LORNA Ya. Um, it was a place, um, at the end of Lilloet Lake and, called, it’s now called Gunsight Mount-, Mountain. And, because it has a split, it has a split in the rock. BEEP (SLATE NO: ____) BEEP BEEP THIS IS CAMERA ROLL NO. 4. (SLATE NO: 28) NEXT BEEP BEEP GARY There’s something about the houses with the roofs missing and some of them caved in that makes me think about people who are missing here and I don’t know whether they live, always happily here or whether something took them away from here. There’s been a lot of wars coming through here, there’s gunfire in the background, um, it’s bringing also for me, a bit of a feeling of loss and I’m wondering if you can tell me, um, a difficult story that you told me once about what happened with the small pox in your village. Is that possible here? Is this the place for that? SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS LORNA Mm ... I don’t know, I don’t feel like this is the place for that story. GARY Um ... LORNA Cause even though here, there’s war and I know that there have been, there have been many eras, like that have, you know, groups of people have lived here. It’s a nice, it’s a nice location and um, I guess over, over the years there’s always change and, um, and sometimes there can be anything that brings that change. It can be, um, caused by, um, natural happenings to the earth, it can be conflict between people. It can be conflict with, um, with the spirit world or with, you know, with nature itself. And so I don’t feel that sense here. I don’t feel that sense of loss in this place. Even though I can see that, that there have been different peoples who have lived, who have lived here. It’s a nice place. It’s got good air, it has a good feeling here. GARY Any other feelings that have come to you here? LORNA Mm ... it’s peaceful here. You know even with, even with the gunshots in the background, it’s, there’s a sense SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS of peace. GARY Slate please. BEEP (SLATE NO: ____) BEEP BEEP LORNA That’s when I’m sitting here, I’m thinking about, uh, being in New Mexico last, last summer, the summer before and seeing the, um, the ruins of the, of the Aztec era and these, um, stones and these buildings, this architecture actually, reminds me of those buildings that were there. Similar kind of doorways and similar small rooms and windows and, uh, places where people gathered and sat together and people, where people worked and, uh, I, you know, see the different notches in the rocks and wonder what, what those, what those were, what those were for. And, um, trying to imagine what life was, must have been like, you know, without, um, without glass windows and to face the elements. Um ... GARY Does this place bring anything to mind, does it strengthen or change or reinforce anything in your own feelings in your own people, about your own ancestors? LORNA Um ... I ... mm ... I guess it just reinfor-, what it SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS reinforces is that, um, that here people also have a pa st and, um, and that we all have a past, we all have a connection to that past and who we are and what we do is part of, is, um, built on that past. Um, so I guess I see the passage of time that’s, you know, that’s what I see here. And I, the other thing that I feel, I guess here, is that, um, is the sense that, uh, so many, unlike, I think our history, here there has been so much, um, more violence and with people exerting their own world view and a way of life, you know, upon other people. And, that’s something that I don’t get a sense of when I’m home, on our land. And I really, every part of this, this country, that, you know, that I see, it’s, um, one group has thrown out another group in order for, in order to exist. And it’s, it makes me, I think under-, it brings me a little bit closer to understanding, um, the co-, conflict that, uh, that, uh, people have had in their, in their cultures, in their histories, that I think we’re not so significant in what, you know, when I hear about our history, it wasn’t, um, even though there were conflicts and people did come and war on us, but always the ... the prime movement was, was for peace and, uh, for people to be able to, um, dialogue and talk until they could come to some resolution. And so there was always an opening that was made for resolution but for here, but what I feel here, is that, um, is that they want SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS resolution too, but resolution only if I can have it, you know. GARY How do you mean by that? LORNA That if I can have this land, we can resolve the conflict and, um, over the land. There’s very little give ... GARY Slate please. BEEP (SLATE NO: ____) BEEP BEEP LORNA I’d say that, I still say, I think that, um, that what this place I would hope would teach uh, young people like Megan is that, is that we need to strive to find better ways of uh, of living together in harmony and, um, and also that um, that the way that people took care of their needs and lived, lived on the land was, um, grew out of their, their knowledge of the land, to grow out of, um, um, their sense of architecture, their ways of building. We, we may be a li-, we have more sophisticated tools but they were very highly developed. They made structures that were, that were, that were good, really good for their times and so that, here I would want her to know about the continuity, of SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS the continuity of life and, uh, to make that connection with the past, but also, you know, to the present and into the future. The other thing that, um, that, that I would hope that she would take away from here would be, uh, the sense of, I guess the importance of, um, of knowing your history, knowing where you’ve come from. GARY Is there a particular image of this place that you’ll take back with you? LORNA I don’t really get the, any, I don’t have a sense, the only, the best image I have here is really looking out over the, uh, over the, the valley and feeling the wind. Um, here I don’t feel a sense of, um, um, even though there’s lots, there’s a sense of time, I don’t, I don’t really feel it here. It’s, um, here it’s very much the present. There are other parts of Israel that I think, uh, I feel more a sense of (PLANE IN BKGD) ... BEEP (TAIL SLATE NO: 30) BEEP BEEP GARY You were going to say? SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS LORNA I was, um ... I was going to say that, um, that you could see the remnants here, the rocks tell you that there, that, and the formations that have been made in the rocks tell you that, you know, people have been here for a long time. Um ... but I guess the forests at home, there’s, here it’s dry and the land is, um, the land feels old. It, and at home though, there’s this also a sense of time that the forest tells you and it’s, um, so there’s a different sense of time, I guess is what it does. GARY Where do you look ... is there a place at home that gives you a sense of time? Where do you look if you want to go and steep yourself in a sense of time? LORNA There’s a place that, um, that my Mom and the old ladies took me, used to take me to, to dig roots and, um, and all around in that area there’s, there are really big cedar trees and people (PLANE IN BKGD) have been going there for ... BEEP (SLATE NO: ____) BEEP BEEP GARY ... at home, where do you look? LORNA I was, I was talking about, um, the place where my Mom SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS and old ladies used to take me to dig roots and it’s in a grove of really big cedar trees and, um, the earth there is really, really soft so there were lots of, you know, you could see that there were lots of dead vegetation that has built up over the years and so, and that’s why they picked that place, because there the roots were really always strong and straight. And, um, and you could see evidence that there, you know, like there had, that it’s been a place where people have gone to, to dig the cedar root and, um, for making baskets and then, all around in that place there are sheshtkins(?), the, the subterranean houses, the winter houses that people used to, to live in and you can still see evidence of them. Some are, um, you can see, you know, the depressions in the, in the earth and you can see some of the logs. In other places you just, you see only the, a log coming out of the ground at a certain angle and so, you know that, that also was a sheshtkin(?) and so there, just from the trees and from the earth and then knowing that there, those were sheshtkin(?) that of, you know, different years, so that, um, it gives that sense of history and, you know, the sense of time. GARY Did those people train you to see those things? LORNA Mm, I’m sure that they trained me, but, um, I’m sure SR 3 - PAGE The Mind of a Child Face to Face Media Ltd. SR 3 - LORNA WILLIAMS they trained me indirectly. BEEP (SLATE NO: ____) BEEP LORNA ... um, Jerusalem towards Masada(?) that I remember the last time was, like there, I really, that was really ... GARY Ya, well maybe we’ll go looking for it. We’ll have a day when we head out in that direction. We’ll find it. Okay. BEEP BEEP BEEP SR 3 - PAGE