Kinnis, Arthur G.: my Air Force recollections (February 11, and March 7, 2005)
Interviewee: Kinnis, Arthur G.
Interviewer: Johnson, Gene
ABSTRACT: Flight Lieutenant Arthur Kinnis Royal Canadian Air Force Art Kinnis Pt 1.mp3, Art Kinnis Pt 2.mp3 Brief summary provided by interviewer. Mr. Kinnis then asked to provide background info. Born in Trail British Columbia on 05 April 1915. Member of the boy-scouts and later district scout master. Married on 01 September 1938 and had a daughter in 1940. "As war was underway there was only one thing I felt that I could do. And that was to join the forces." Chose the Air Force. "I liked taking photos, so I thought that this would be my best chance to get some good snap." Few details about training. In England "A warrant officer had the whole parade out on review, and, he said, 'I want the gunners over here; mid upper, there; and, oh yes, we can use the bomb aimers. You here. We're using you fellows up quite quickly.'... Those were very discouraging words, because I was by this time an air bomber and fully expected to get into action fairly soon." Describes being shot down. Describes the difficulty of exiting aircraft. As he floated down he witnessed Lancaster crashing. Made contact with "honest looking individual" who happened to be mayor of local town. Put in contact with resistance and had to prove his identity. Asked to identify bodies of fellow crewmembers. Told that skipper had been sent to hospital and radio operator last seen hiking towards Paris. Describes funeral of 3 dead crewmembers. During funeral, Lancaster's 3 long delayed bombs went off. "Almost like a salute to the three who had been killed." Describes safe house. "Been wanting to get back to England." Moved to Paris. Original plan was to be flown out on a Lysander or travel overland to England via Spain. During transit between resistance cells Mr. Kinnis was "sold" out to Gestapo. Describes the strength and weakness of the resistance. One resistance cell didn't know what the other was up to. Initial interrogation at Paris then put on Black Mariah van and transferred to Fresnes prison, about 20 miles from Paris. "As soon as we had those steel doors clanged behind us we knew life was going to be different." Description of conditions at Fresnes. Describes disciplinary measures. A guard, goon, hit Mr. Kinnis and burst his right eardrum. "At no time did we know how many people were in Fresnes. We knew there were a lot." On 15 August 1944, prisoners were brought to rail station and loaded onto 40 and 8s, so called because they were designed to transport 40 men or 8 horses. &5 loaded onto Mr. Kinnis' car; some cars had many more. "It was a most uncomfortable set-up." No ablution facilities and no privacy. Arrived at Buchenwald and prisoners were separated into groups. Processed and assigned numbers. Train trip had taken 5 days. Train had been the last one to leave Paris. "If we had stayed in the house... I would have been free." "We decided we had to get organized." Collected the names, serial numbers and Buchenwald numbers of 168 Allied aircrew. "Life in Buchenwald itself was very grim... there were rumours galore." What did you do to get through this? Group and individual efforts described. 17 SOE brought in the day before the 168 airmen. "The next thing we knew they'd been all murdered." SOE names also recorded in Kinnis diary. Lost 2 airmen due illness. All in ill health. Danish police incarcerated at Buchenwald. These men brought with them food rations that they shared with the airmen. Gives details of inmate-guards that helped the SS. Underground network existed and used to send messages out with work details. Underground snuck list of 168 names out to Nehru which was a Luftwaffe station. "There was no love lost between the Luftwaffe and the SS." "Within 2 or 3 days we had a visit from Luftwaffe officers" who arranged to get men onto a train and transferred to Stalag Luft III located near the town of Sagan. Once at Stalag Luft III the airmen had to prove their identity. Many airmen expressed disbelief that they had been to Buchenwald. Stalag Luft III a big improvement over Buchenwald. In January/February POWs were evacuated and forced to march away from advancing Soviet army. Great March. Some marched north towards Lubeck. American POWs were marched south towards Moosberg. Encountered no animosity from German civilians. Mr. Kinnis was sent to Luchenwald, Stalag 3A. Asked about food and recipes at Stalag III. Great interest in food. "Had to imagine sweetness." Recipes included in diary. What got you through it? Scouts. Talks about taking interior decorating in New York. Talks about courses in Stalag III. Designed his house. "That occupied a lot of my time." Great exchange of ideas amongst prisoners. Would give and take courses. Wife had found out in January that he had been taken prisoner, "but at no time did she know that I'd been at." Talks of meeting wife in Montreal and remembers telling her of Buchenwald. Didn't think anyone would want to hear about it. "It wasn't long before we found out that if we did say anything, people wouldn't believe us. They'd think we were line-shooting." Newspapers had claimed that no allied personnel had been sent to concentration camps. "The government did nothing to back us up." Mr. Kinnis had given government complete list of prisoners; government lost it. Asked to think back to initial training. Did training include egress, survival and evasion? Mr. Kinnis states that little training was given. People basically pointed to the exits.... Plans made for a second interview. Second Interview: 07 March 2005 Forced March. "One of the most delightful things that happened was that after only a few days at Stalag 3A I heard my name called from the other side of the fence." In February 1945 was reunited with his engineer and pilot. They filled him in on what had happened to them and to the best of their abilities to the rest of the crew. Recounts evacuation from Stalag III. 10,000 POWs from Stalag III. Approximately four days march. "Spremberg was the last of our marching. Boarded trains." Americans south to Moosberg. Some north to Lubeck. Mr. Kinnis' section went to Stalag 3A: Luchenwald. "Guards were as tired as we were."... "We had more freedom there." Describes arrival of Russians. ... "This mad Russian in the tank kept going"... Describes the way the Russians treated them. Also describes an execution of a German by a Soviet female soldier. "The war was over on May the 8th and we were still prisoners", Americans sent over a convoy of trucks to pick them up, but "it wasn't in the cards." The prisoners got onto the trucks, but were forced off by the Russians at bayonet point. A few prisoners escaped, but most played it safe and stayed put. Taken to Halle, processed and given a number for transfer back to England. "Felt that a good interrogation should have been given to all of our guys who'd been to Buchenwald." Not enough was done. Were you ever able to speak to your wife or your children about it? "We never talked about it." POW convention in 1981, Mr. Kinnis told fellow POWs about it. Give details about various conventions. "Big hunt for names started in 1983." "Whenever we went to a convention, we went as a group." Discusses differences between a regular POW and a Buchenwald POW. Regarding Buchenwald, different groups of prisoners assigned a different colour, how did you see yourself in relation to other groups? "Lots of rumours about what happened," but didn't really know. Discusses American bombing of Buchenwald industrial facilities. "Marvellous piece of bombing."... Describes it as precision bombing. "Those of us who were bomb-aimers looked for a place to hide... pilots and others" a bit slow to follow. POWs saw evidence of atrocities. Resistance and Underground were in camp. SOE discussed. Exempt from work details. After the majority of the airmen were shipped to Stalag III, some of the remaining airmen were put to work; they were no longer protected by their group identity. Loathing for SS. Post war disbelief. Even mother did not believe his story. Buchenwald POWs began to question if it had actually happened. No official recognition. Worked with local Member of Parliament in order to gain recognition. In a 1979 McLean's Magazine article, four airmen claimed they had been incarcerated at Buchenwald. In 1983 the Buchenwald POWs began organizing. Up until that time they hadn't realize the degree of psychological problems that the group was experiencing.... Very few KLB (Koncentration Lager Buchenwald) club members smoke. Remarkably few divorces. Credits wives for what they did for their KLB husbands. Group wasn't aware of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Very close ties between members. Much closer than the camaraderie normally associated with a military unit.... Provides details of the assistance that members provide one another.... In 2002, the Canadian Government finally acknowledged that Canadians airmen had been sent to Buchenwald. Apologies for being so slow. Provides information about compensation provided various airmen who had been incarcerated at Buchenwald. Provides information on class action law suits in U.S. (45 minute break) Talks about German compensation. Victims wanted Germany to pay, not the Canadian Government. Provides additional information about compensation packages offered to other allied airmen. Department of Veterans Affairs apologized for delayed recognition. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Veteran Affairs aware that the Buchenwald POWs are suffering from it. Discusses what Veterans Affairs has done and not done for the Buchenwald POWs. Discusses the use of rail transport by the Germans. Talks again about the train trip out of Paris.... Describes the KLB crest. Crest was designed while at Buchenwald. Mr. Kinnis describes the difficulty of working indoors. A number of things still affects him. Discusses again what got him through the experience. "The house was my salvation." Emphasizes the importance of sticking together.
Rank: Flight Lieutenant.
An interview/narrative of Arthur Kinnis's experiences during World War II. Flight Lieutenant Kinnis served with the Royal Canadian Air Force. Interview took place on February 11 and March 7, 2005.
- In Collection:
- 2 sound recordings (MP3)
- 51.5, 10.5
- 45.50884, -73.58781
- 52.09029, 13.16772
- Original recordings (MP3) on compact disc (CD-R) in Special Collections.
- Canadian Military Oral History Collection
- KAG_438
- Special Collections Finding Aid: https://uvic2.coppul.archivematica.org/military-oral-history-collection
- February 11, 2005
- Digital sound recording in .mp3 format at 128 kbps and 44 kHz. Digitized by interviewer, technical and cataloguing metadata provided by JF and JP. Interview recorded in digital format for UVic Special Collections in 2005. Migration metadata by KD and MT.
- Rights
- This interview has been posted with the understanding that it may be used for research purposes only. Should the interviewee or their heirs have any objections to this interview being accessible on the Internet, it will be removed promptly. Contact UVic Special Collections for permission if using for other than research purposes: speccoll@uvic.ca
- DOI
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