Interview with Nancy Bansgrove

19-02-22-NB.docx




“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

1

“HIV in My Day” – Victoria Interview 12

February 22, 2019
Interviewee: Nancy Bansgrove (NB); Interviewers: Charlene Anderson (CA) and Art
Holbrook (AH)

Charlene Anderson: Hi.

Nancy Bansgrove: Hi!

CA: Can you tell me your name?

NB: Nancy Bansgrove.

CA: Hi Nancy, nice to meet you, I’m Charlene.

NB: Hi Charlene.

CA: Okay, and this is my first time leading at this, so I will be the paper rattler.

NB: Okay.

CA: Can you tell me your connection to Victoria and—yeah.

NB: AVI or…?

CA: To, um, yes—to the HIV community in Victoria?

NB: Well, we were moving from Parksville to Victoria in 1989. I remember that date specifically
because I wrote a cheque for our condominium. And I had decided, because in Parksville I was
so ignorant about this HIV, I was rather ashamed of myself, so I talked to my daughter and she
said, “Well, Mom, why don’t you volunteer and find out about it?” So, when I moved to
Victoria, I found AVI and started from there.

CA: And when did you first hear about HIV and AIDS?

NB: I can’t remember the date, but we moved in ‘89 to Victoria, so sometime in the previous six
years, I guess. You know, I don’t think there was an organization that was very active in
Parksville, like there wasn’t anything for me to do there. And my husband was still recovering
from an illness. And when we were in Victoria, we were settled, and my oldest daughter was
getting married and all of that stuff was going on, and I was ready to sort of do something to
volunteer and find out about things. And AVI was very welcoming and quite—a need to seek
publicity. You know, to raise money and funds and all of that, that was all part of the whole mix.
And I felt—say, when I’ve said to much—I felt quite strongly because I was a middle-class,
middle-aged, Caucasian Christian, and I felt I needed to be heard from, because there was so
much nasty stuff about gay people. And I thought it was so unfair. It was the people who felt that





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

2

AIDS was due to these people because of the lifestyle they lived, because this was God’s anger. I
could never get my mind around that, because my God is a loving God, he doesn’t do those
things.

CA: Where did you hear all this stuff? Was it from people that you knew or…?

NB: Reading in the paper and listening to the news, and yeah, probably some conversations, but
you know, I was in the church, so I knew what was happening. So, that’s why I went and got into
the buddy system.

Art Holbrook: May I ask a question? What were your duties as a volunteer?

NB: I got into the buddy system to start with. What they did was to invite us for training and we
met people and that sort of thing. But also, I went to various gay people’s residences where they
were meeting for afternoon tea or whatever they were doing and got to know some of the
community in that way. And then when we did training, I wanted to go into the buddy system, I
didn’t want to do anything else. That was what I thought, that one-on-one would be more
suitable for me and could be more helpful, and my husband Eric was really supportive as were
all of my family. So, I just wanted to go and see what I could do and be helpful.

CA: And what kind of things did you do as a buddy?

NB: As a buddy? Well, my first buddy was the most difficult buddy. He was a lovely man who
was young, was twenty-six when he passed away. A little bit older than my son, who was the
youngest in our family, youngest child. He came from Montreal, his family lived here. And he
was an artist, and he felt he was just making it. And he was understandably very angry. And so, I
related to that because I couldn’t imagine having that horrible prognosis. And there wasn’t much
hope in those days, you know, for a full length of life. And he was difficult to handle, to say the
least, because he’d lost his sight, totally, from the [inaudible]. And he just would become
obnoxious sometimes when we were out, you know, really obnoxious. Handsome, tall man, wore
black, all the time. “Nancy, have I got on black today? Yes, now tell me the truth.” He was
thinking, did my mother finish the washing or not. And that was always behind it, so we always
laughed at that. But uh—and I think I pretty much told the truth on that issue, but I’m not really
sure in retrospect—but he was a good, very smart man. And was a tragedy on many, many levels
[inaudible] with his life. You know, not very prospectively, not very long. And trying all sorts of
different things. And also, some weird things gay men tried at that time to try to make things
better for themselves. He could be really difficult, and one day I was outside Eaton’s, and I have
forgotten the name of the street, it was Eaton’s in those days, and we were going to—or I was
taking him to acupuncture chap and he was just misbehaving, yelling and carrying on. And a
lady came up to me and said, “There’s a mental health outfit that you could take him to…” And
I’m sure this guy would’ve died if he’d heard it. And I said, “Oh no, we’ll be fine.” So, he went
up there.

But I used to say to him—can’t say his name because I don’t want to—“If you don’t behave
yourself, I am going to put you in the traffic where you can play” Because he can’t see anything.
Oh, and he had me read books that were all about gay sex, all sorts of stuff, and I would phone





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

3

my children and they’d say, “I can’t believe you’re doing this mother.” Oh, I was. Because I
made that commitment. And it was very sad when he passed away. It was very, very sad, and it
was difficult because he was young, and he had a strong heart. So, he took a long time to pass
away. And I made a quilt because I’d got involved in that, I made a quilt for him. And I couldn’t
cry, that was the thing, until the AIDS quilt came to Victoria in a theater, I think the one up on
Douglas Street—on Quadra Street, and they had the quilt there, and I just went and signed, not
his because I gave his to his mother, because I’d stopped adding to the quilt by that time. And,
that’s when I cried, and took me a long time. Yeah, so, that was my first buddy.

AH: You mentioned that people were trying all sorts of bizarre things—what kinds of things?

NB: Well, drinking their own urine was one. That’s—that’s the one I was thinking about. That
wasn’t the only one but that was the one that stuck in my mind. And not saying that my buddy
did that—oh, my buddy’s brother used to get him pot, which is nothing now, but in those days, it
was quite something. And give him money, and he had a—and I was just talking to my daughter
about this—he had a home care worker who was from another country and a physician, and he
was—couldn’t practice here—and he was absolutely terrified of getting HIV. And so, my
ignorance didn’t seem so grand when that happened. I thought it’s not so bad, Nancy, you won’t
be seen making guards and doing other things. You know, and I’m not a medically-inclined
person at all. Yeah, so that was – I felt sorry for the man, really nice man, but sorry for him.

CA: So, you’ve been involved in this community then for—

NB: A few years.

CA: For thirty years now.

NB: Yeah, one way or another.

CA: So, what kinds of changes have you seen?

NB: Well, I’ve seen AVI really come alive, to me, make a real presence, raising money, doing
great things. They had all these structures and committees and things you could go on, even
though I wasn’t interested in that. And they did street outreach work, they provided particular
care that some men may have needed. They needed more vitamins, they provided Ensure or
whatever those things were at that time, I remember that. And sometimes they needed money for
drugs, and they’d try to get them drugs that are less pricey. So, I was aware of those things. But
the big thing was they got credibility, in my opinion. And then later, there were other
organizations were AIDS-related but I was with AVI. When my first buddy died, they were there
for the stress and stuff that you feel. Of course, you think you don’t need any of that, but by the
time my second buddy passed away, I certainly knew that it had really stressed me out. And
hospice phoned, and I said, no I was fine, but it was very stressful.

CA: So, did both of them pass away in hospice or…?






“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

4

NB: No, the second one was a man who was really involved in AVI and he asked that I be his
buddy, and he wondered whether I would do it right away. But I did, and my husband was
involved in that, because he was—just really needed support. And I needed to be going into his
suite, and I would often go on Sunday afternoons after church, and Eric would come with me.
And one day he phoned—my buddy phoned me—and said he sorted of needed help. So, I had a
key and I got in, and he was in a terrible mess – feces everywhere and he’d been vomiting, and I
tried to get the emergency response team, and they didn’t think it was a major problem. So, Eric
got on the phone and got a GP to come, his own GP came and stood there, and Eric in his best
way—manner took all notes of everything that happened. And then they took my buddy to
hospice, where he was treated with absolute dignity and love and care, and you know, all of that.
For me, for me and for Eric, they were wonderful. And like Eric made a simple—asked a simple
question, “Have I used the wrong mugs for the coffee?” And they said, “Eric, nobody can do
anything wrong here.” And that—that was just wonderful. Because not being—I mean, I had to
clean this man up and all of that, but I just felt so badly that that had happened. Because we had
had a previous experience in the hospital where they wouldn’t come and take his kidney bowl
that he’d thrown up into, so I took out to the nurses’ station and said, “Dispose of this and get me
a new one.” There were things like that that had happened with the first one. The first buddy, the
staff wouldn’t come—came in and put his tray over there on the wall. My buddy’s here, he can’t
see, he’s blind as in black blind, and he can’t move, and nobody’s coming to help him. That was
something to get angry about.

CA: So, you saw a lot of stigma in the healthcare field?

NB: Well, it wasn’t systemic, but it existed. It would turn up, and those people shouldn’t have
behaved that way. It didn’t matter, they were just putting a tray down. Big—you know. I
couldn’t—anyway, I didn’t excuse either of those, I was very angry with the nurses’ station,
actually. And it was just that time and perhaps they were very busy and all of that, but
nonetheless, you want the person that you love and care for to get first-class treatment. And that
man was not getting it, he needed a clean bowl to throw up into.

CA: I have a question. With the fellow that had all the problems and your husband called his
GP—did you tell the ambulance people or the emergency people that he was positive?

NB: No, I didn’t. I was just very, very thankful that somebody came to help, actually.

CA: But did you tell them he was HIV positive or had AIDS?

NB: Uh, no, I did not, probably the doctor did because he knew, because Eric would’ve told him.
He was a good, kind man. And then, yeah – okay, I’ll shush up.

CA: Oh no, keep talking—this is wonderful!

NB: And then my third buddy – after my second buddy passed away, that was difficult. My
second buddy, we had a good relationship with his sister who lived in Saskatchewan, in Regina,
Saskatchewan. And she would come over, and this man’s mother, and his sister’s mother, was in
care, and she would just turn up because she was concerned about how her mother was taken





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

5

care of. So, we developed a good relationship with her over the years, and then he went into
palliative care—he didn’t say in hospice very long, the second buddy—he went into palliative
care at Sisters of Sendan, when that was there on Fairfield. And they were lovely, the staff there
were lovely. And the Sister there was phenomenal, she was like an absolute angel – people, I just
couldn’t say enough about her, she was just wonderful. And she was wonderful to my buddy.
And the staff was run off their feet because a lot of the patients were AIDS patients and they
phoned us one night, I don’t know about three o’clock, see whether we could come and look
after our buddy. Because he was getting out of the bed, and they didn’t have the staff to handle
him all the time. So, we went and looked after him until they were able to do stuff for him.

And then when he passed away, or just before he passed away, his brother, who’s wife had
absolutely refused to have anything to do with him, and to let him near his children, they turned
up and tried to interfere with end of life things. And the Catholic nun who was sort of
responsible, she said to me, “No way, that’s not going to happen.” And she was so worldly and
lovely and kind. And so, for his funeral, Eric gave the eulogy. And she got what she wanted in
the Catholic church, when we left there was my buddy’s coffin lid open, which is—the priest had
said, “No way, no way, no way.” She got what she wanted. And people fought hard for those
things, which I don’t think I could’ve done. But small things I could do, you know, we could
take people to appointments and look after them and get groceries and do all sorts of things with
them, get their medicine, whatever. We could do those things. It was easy because I drove the
car, and my husband didn’t drive anymore, he had eye problems. So, all of that was fairly easy,
and it was always a part of your family and your everyday life. You know, it just was. And we
were pleased when Eric was able to do the eulogy. I could not have stood up and done that, you
get too involved. You know. And then we met David.

CA: Over the course of your three buddies, what kind of changes have you seen, like with
government response to the HIV/AIDS epidemic?

NB: Oh, I think enormous changes in research particularly. And I can’t remember the name—
he’s got a Spanish name—

CA: Julio Montaner.

NB: Montaner, right. Thank you.

CA: Julio.

NB: Julio, yeah. I remember all that and I was really interested in reading about the research and
that sort of thing. I haven’t maintained that stuff, and yeah, there was a lot of help from
government. And that was because of the people who lobbied, and they were the men themselves
and the AIDS organizations. They did marvelous jobs. They had structure in their organization,
they looked after their volunteers, you know. Sometimes the pot would boil and they’d sort it
out, you know, those sorts of things. Yeah I think they did a marvelous job, AIDS Vancouver
Island particularly because that’s—they’re the ones that I know about, and I know there were
other organizations after awhile and they were breakaway organizations and that happens, but I
was with AVI and I was quite loyal to them. And I respected the people and everybody that





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

6

worked there. I did go to a meeting one night that I’ve thought about a lot, and there was a man
there with Kaposi sarcoma all over his face. And I didn’t recognize him. I couldn’t remember his
name. And he said, “Oh, Nancy, how nice to see you.” I was so embarrassed, I’ve never
forgotten that, because it must’ve been terrible for him. I just felt terrible about that. So, you
make lots of mistakes.

CA: Everyone does. That must’ve been in the very early days.

NB: Yeah, ask my children.

CA: So, your children must be very knowledgeable?

NB: They’re liberal. Educated and liberal.

CA: Did you educate them on the things that you were learning, as you were?

NB: Yeah, we talked about it. Because at that time, with the first buddy, my son I think was
already working overseas—I can’t really remember, can’t get the dates quite right—but I think
our son was either doing research in Indonesia or something like that for his post-grad. And
[inaudible] the comparison was just awful. You know, I couldn’t put myself in this buddy’s
mother’s shoes, it was just awful, you know, at that age. Yeah, and with a talented man, and you
know…

CA: So, in the mid-nineties when medications started coming out, what did you see happening?

NB: Well, I saw – with my second buddy, him taking it, and having a very—and his body not
being able to handle it. And that was pretty horrible.

CA: Was that with AZT or…?

NB: Yeah, I think so. And he ended up having morphine, liquid morphine. And they can handle
it better themselves than having it dosed down in hospital and stuff, because they get to use the
right amount. You know, I knew an elderly lady that did it because she had fractures in her spine
and she told me she was doing that. So, yeah.

CA: Therapeutic doses, I believe it’s called.

NB: Yes, is that what it’s—thank you, therapeutic is the word. You see, I’m losing my words.

CA: So, how have you… you’ve answered a lot of my questions already. That’s wonderful. So,
how did becoming involved with AVI, how did that change your life, and your personal life and
your perspective?

NB: Well, one of the things that happened, I—they had parades and I can’t remember where we
went down to the legislature or something. So, that was the first parade I’d gone into, an AIDS
parade. And it was fairly a bit edgy in the community I would say, but that might have been just





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

7

my perspective because I’m fairly conservative in many ways. But then we did another parade
and we went to the Beacon Hill Band Hill—Band Park—

CA: Bandshell.

NB: Thank you, Bandshell. And I was one of three speakers, so I made a speech about that and
about how I felt my work with my volunteering with AIDS had helped me look differently at my
Christian life. Not that I’m any model, but it did make a difference. It made me really stop and
think about who I was, and how I behaved and what I did. And how I judged people or should
not. So, that was one thing I did that made a difference.

CA: So, did it reshape your values in some form?

NB: Yeah it does, it does. It does reshape your values, you know. One of the things that
happened at AVI—one function I was at, and I can’t remember which one it was, somebody said
to me, “Nancy, how did—why did you volunteer for AVI? Is your son gay?” And I was blown
away. I thought this is not the place that you should be asking that question. And I said,
“Actually, no, he isn’t. He’s now married with two kids.” Yeah, so that was—I guess in a way, I
was a bit of an anomaly when I first volunteered because I think a lot of the volunteers were
AIDS men themselves that were helping one another. And that was a good thing, and that was
good community. That was about a good community. I know I said to Eric, oh I’d go to a
meeting and then one of the men, and he’s passed away since, would walk me over to the
parking lot on Johnson Street, because that’s where AVI was originally, and make sure I got into
my car okay. And I said I never felt under threat and Eric just laughed. He thought it was
hilarious. “These are gay guys, Nancy.”

CA: So, did you yourself experience any stigma—

NB: No—

CA: For doing what you were doing, for volunteering with people that were—that had AIDS.

NB: No, I don’t think I had any stigma. I think perhaps sometimes they thought after my second
buddy passed away, they thought perhaps I could go with them on the street outreach or be with
them on the board. I wasn’t interested in that. And then they phoned and asked me if I would
consider taking—well, you know, the guy so I can say his name—David. So that’s what we’re
doing. At that point, Eric was coming into town—we had moved out to Langford—and we were
coming into town for Eric to swim with his friend [name] at the Y. And I would walk for that
hour and a half, and then we’d go and have coffee and we’d go home for lunch, and then we’d
come back to see David. And we did that twice a week. And that’s how we got to know David
and John, and both of their situations. And he just grew on us, became part of our clan if you
like. And uh, yeah, we have some funny times together. One Christmas in Langford, they gave
me a cellphone and I didn’t know what was in the box, and then they phoned it. I guess
everybody did that at that time. But anyway, it was very funny.

CA: You’re standing there with the box in your hand and it starts ringing?





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

8


NB: Yeah. Anyway.

CA: So, you got—you gave me this to look at—you got a volunteer of the year?

NB: In what year was that?

CA: In 1993.

NB: 1993, okay. Yeah, that was a surprise. A lovely little plaque and we were living in
independent living and I didn’t have anywhere for it, so my daughter has it. That was really nice.
I really enjoyed that evening, it was fun.

CA: So, do you have any advice for healthcare professionals in regards to dealing with… Oh, I
guess my first question would be, have you heard of PrEP?

NB: PrEP? No.

CA: PrEP. It’s pre-exposure prophylactic. So, it’s one pill that you take before sex, that men take
before sex, and then they don’t use condoms afterwards.

NB: When you tell me, I’ve sort of vaguely heard about it, but I don’t know anymore than that.
Does that apply for women too—can women use that too or not?

CA: I think it’s just men.

NB: Okay. Because before I’d finished with AVI, women – there was a woman who had a baby
and the baby had survived, and that sort of stuff, you know that wasn’t the way it used to be. And
so, I remember that. And it wasn’t just—it was no longer just gay. That was the stigma of it
really, was just that, that it was only men and that was the way it was viewed. And that was
wrong.

CA: It was the payback for being a gay man?

NB: God making them—

AH: God’s punishment?

NB: Yeah, not my God or else he’d be in big trouble.

AH: You mentioned women. Did you know [name]?

NB: Yes, I do—I know the name. Now, am I talking about a woman who did…

AH: She worked in Africa?






“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

9

CA: Mama [name].

NB: Yes, thank you, yep, yep, yep. I know the name and I know of her, but that’s a long time
ago. Like, I was involved in the church a little bit in a small parish in outreach like that in Africa.
I didn’t believe in proselytizing at all, but going to help, I supported, and raise money, little bit in
our church. Yeah, I know the name. Wow, I’m impressed with myself, I don’t usually remember
that stuff.

CA: So, with your experiences with the healthcare system and AIDS and HIV way back when,
do you have any advice for healthcare practitioners today, regarding working with people that
are HIV positive?

NB: To me, they—we’re all human beings and we should all be treated equally, and our illness is
just an illness, it is not who we are. That’s all I can think of to say.

CA: That’s perfect. I love it. And what about the government, any advice for them?

NB: I think they’ve got to keep funding St. Paul’s, because they seem to be the place to go, and I
think they need to have funding for outreach. Because young people, and men and women, just
think nothing is ever going to happen to them, and they need to always be educated, sexually and
with drugs. Yeah, I mean I—our world is in such a mess to me. My husband said it always has
been, but to me it’s worse now. We use foul language, we abuse one another in public, whether
we’re politicians, whomever we are, we think it’s appropriate, and it isn’t appropriate. So, I
think—that’s one of my concerns, we’ve got grandchildren and I wonder what sort of world
we’re leaving them, but I guess after the Second World War and Hiroshima and Nagasaki,
families were saying the same thing. But I’m not convinced, I think it’s more dangerous now
than it was then.

CA: Very personal question—do your children teach their children about sexual – like, sexual
education and education around drugs and etcetera?

NB: My oldest daughter couldn’t have children, and after many years they got a little boy from
Poland from somebody she taught at university, was his—her family. And this little boy came
into their life he was about seven. Believe me, my daughter taught him everything. Showed him
films, you name it, when he was little boy, always on it. It’s different, so much different to our
upbringing of them, and totally disconnected to mine—the way I was raised. But yeah, and I
know our son, the same – they have a girl and a boy and I know they were well educated about
that. And the girl is nineteen and at university and the boy is twenty-two, not married, he’s in
construction. They’re both lovely kids, even though I’m their nana. Despite that, everybody says
they’re lovely children. David and John love them.

CA: So, do you have any advice for future generations, who have not experienced an epidemic
like this?

NB: I think my only advice would be the advice I wish I’d been given, is familiarize yourself
with the problem and don’t just listen to one news outlet, really research what the problem is,





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

10

and then you know where you’re coming from. And then you can move forward on that. But
that’s all I could say.

CA: So, education.

NB: Yeah. I mean, I think my absolute ignorance about AIDS was precipitated by one lunch at I
think it was the Bay in Nanaimo, and I wanted to have a sauce on my meat, and you had to get it
from a, you know, a spoon and put it on your meat. And I wouldn’t do it, because I thought I
might get AIDS, and my daughter said, “Mom!” So, from then, I moved forward, but that was a
wake-up call for me, how one can pick up the periphery of what’s out there. And even if they’re
not saying it, they are telling you that this can spread all sorts of ways, and it’s not just bodily
fluids. And even years later, I was at the emergency in Royal Jubilee, and there was a security
guard that came in and he was telling a man sitting next to us that, “Well, this guy I had to get
him out of here and he spat on me, so I have to get an HIV test.” And I thought, you crook,
you’re sitting down here taking time off! Right? I mean, that is not—there’s no excuse now. And
I didn’t – there wasn’t really any excuse for me, I just hadn’t bothered and I just had this in my
head. And this guy should’ve had more sense. He was working in a hospital for heaven’s sake.

CA: Well, back in the day, there was just so much fear-mongering.

NB: Yeah, and the people who needed to listen weren’t listening. Yeah, and uh, no, I think the
organizations and the gay men themselves who fought to have help and money into research.
There was a group, do you remember, that really fought for research? I remember them standing
up in whatever hall in the States and screaming and yelling that they wanted money for research.
And they were right.

CA: ACT UP.

NB: I wasn’t out there doing that, but they were doing it. And they were probably all fairly ill,
and they’d had partners die and all sorts of stuff. Anybody that knew the men couldn’t help but
have compassion for them. That was the thing that I found. They were just – they were good
people, as we all try to be but don’t always succeed, but you know, they were good people. And
they’re in a terrible situation. And AVI to me, helped them immeasurably, here in Victoria.

CA: Are you still involved with AVI at all or…?

NB: No, I’m not. I’m going onto eighty-one I’m not about to be doing—we’re living in
independent living and I’ve got a husband that is loving and kind and that, but he’s not always
well. And that’s enough for me. And my family’s trying to say, mom, perhaps it’s time you did
this, so we’re in independent living. Perhaps you should think about not driving, I don’t think so.
So, we’ve all got our own crosses to bear.

CA: Yes, definitely.

AH: May I ask how you think the community has changed—either the gay community or the
larger community?





“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

11


NB: I think the larger community has really moved forward and is really accepting of gay and
lesbian and—we go to a church on Quadra Street, and it is the most accepting church you can
imagine. We have crossdressers and trans—people who have changed sex. And I know this by
asking people—course, I’ve only been there ten years or so, but that is an example, but I know
there are other churches. Because I’m an Anglican, so we had a big breakaway group, which I
was not impressed, and I just thought this was not what it was about. So, I do think the
community-at-large has changed tremendously and is much more welcoming, and you know, I
was pretty—I went to services that were conducted by this particular person. And then I realized
that he belonged—I may not like this part to be repeated—he belonged to the breakaway group.
And Eric and I had stood up for David and John to be married at the Hotel Vancouver, and I just
felt this wasn’t right for me to be there, because we loved David and John, and this person had
thought that this was wrong. Yeah. And you are who you’re born. I mean, my husband says,
“Well, Nancy burns—her skin burns so rapidly, we can’t even have hundred-watt bulbs.” And
that is me, that’s who I am, you know. And so anyway, I do think the community’s really
changed. No, I don’t think the gay community has to advocate as much as they did before
because I think the people that went before them did that for them. Is that correct, do you think?

CA: Uh, to a certain extent, yep, they’re advocating for different things now.

NB: Well, we always are, aren’t we?

CA: Yes, it’s ever-changing.

NB: But now people like David have a future, you know. They have a future. My first two
buddies had no future. And that’s pretty hard to live with when you’re young.

CA: So, you have seen remarkable changes?

NB: Yes, yes. And babies that survive and mothers that survive after childbirth and all sorts of
things. Yeah. There are good things in the world.

CA: There are. There are a lot of good things in the world.

NB: And I’d rather be positive, but by golly it’s hard sometimes.

CA: It is. Yeah.

AH: I’m good, unless there’s anything else you’d like to say?

CA: Anything else you’d like to add?

NB: I probably talked too much.

CA: No, no, you can’t talk too much.






“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

12

NB: You can bit and bite and—thank you and thank you for being so nice, and understanding.

CA: Yes, thank you for sharing part of your life. It’s really important actually.

AH: What’s that paper? What’s that paper in your hand?

NB: Oh, it’s just notes that I made for myself, which I didn’t use. Because of the way you
interviewed. And you’ve got the one on the—

AH: That award was that—

NB: Oh, you can take that, I don’t want it. Eric just pulled it down from the computer, because I
couldn’t remember. You know, you put it out of your mind, I had all sorts of stuff I had books
and things and I just stopped it. And then when we were—David asked me if I’d do this, I
thought, oh, I don’t know, and then my cousin in Australia skyped me and says, “Yes, Nancy,
you do it.” My son says mom won’t do it, David.

CA: Well, you’re a very rich part of the history of HIV and AIDS and the movement and just the
progression of things and how things have changed and gotten better. So, that’s really important
to the whole idea behind this is to collect stories so that people don’t forget, you know, that it
was horrible and things have gotten better, but they still can get better.

NB: And I made for my second buddy, I made a quilt because my second buddy was originally
going into Catho—going to be a Catholic priest, and then he left the church, and so when he
died, I made a big banner for him which they hung in AVI for a long, long time. And yeah, I tend
to do that. When we got our grandson, I made a big banner for his Catholic school. When I had
another crisis, I made another banner for another church.

CA: So, you have your way of dealing with things?

NB: In a way, in a way I guess, retrospectively. At the time, I just thought I have to do this. But I
know for my second buddy, he was, I think he was a director of AVI, Executive Director for
awhile. And he was sort of well involved and smart guy and all of that, but yeah, so I don’t
know. David has seen it down there, I don’t know whether it’s still there or what they’ve done,
because it wasn’t made to last forever. I did it out of all very bright colours and things. And yeah.

CA: It’s still there.

NB: Is it?

CA: It’s in the new building.

NB: Where’s the new building?

CA: It’s on Johnson Street, just half a block down from the old building.






“HIV in My Day,” Nancy Bansgrove (February 22, 2019)

13

NB: You can see I am totally out of it.

CA: It’s probably up on the wall.

NB: Oh, is it? It hasn’t fallen to pieces?

CA: It has not, a few people have mended it here and there. Oh yes, it’s very important.

NB: It didn’t occur to me to give the – I think to give the one that I made for my first buddy.
Because of who he was, I did it in velvet, and it was difficult to do, and it just was on – it was
either red background. And I put his name in big bold letters, because that’s who he was. And
this man was really strong. He died on World AIDS Day.

CA: Wow.

NB: So, I never forget him. Anyway, thank you.

CA: I’m going to turn this off now.