Queen’s Harbour: First Nations Education, 1860-1970
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The Mind of a Child
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QUEEN’S HARBOUR
VR 92 - LORNA WILLIAMS
BEEP
This is not a finished product. Characters speaking
languages other than English will eventually be subtitled.
For this demonstration video only, you will hear my voice
doing voiceover translations into English.
Good evening and welcome to our evening session. I hope
that you all had an opportunity to read the Rawlin’s article
and I’m sure that if you had, you’ll probably agree with me
that we are going to have to deal with some of those issues
that have, that are are raised in that article. And I know
Margaret indicated to you earlier that, uh, we would be
fortunate in having our First Nations Education Specialist,
Agnes Thomas with us and indeed she has been able to come
and I want to just briefly introduce her to you before I
turn the meeting over to Agnes. Uh, Agnes has had twenty
five years teaching experience and, as, as a teacher and as
a consultant and an advocate for First Nations, ah,
education. She has, um, worked throughout the province as a
consultant and a professional development facilitator
trainer. She is a founder of two learning institutes and
has worked with people from all over the world to develop
unique and highly effective approaches to education on a
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First Nations perspective. Uh, Agnes, we welcome you here
this evening. The floor is yours.
AGNES Thanks. I’d like to thank, um, Mr. Sullivan for
inviting me to come and spend some time with you. I received
the article that, um, that, uh, that you received today.
Um, although, um, this article points to some topics that
need to be, that we need to concern ourselves with, um, one
would be the use of children’s education to make a political
point. The second is, um, the, the funding and what happens
to educational funding for aboriginal children. Um, also,
the, it points out, uh, some of the, uh, the
underachievement and the lack of success of aboriginal
children in, in our schools. Uh, it also, uh, talks about
the displacing of Western culture when in the curriculum,
when we add First Nations culture in history into that
curriculum. Um, and another point, uh, around, um, the
hiring of teachers and other district staff in, um, uh, in
school districts. Um, although in the last, I would say ten
years, there have been many changes in, um, education for
aboriginal chidlren, but I think that it’s, um, it’s very
slow and there is often a lack of willingness to address
some of the issues that have been with us for a long time.
Many of you attended, um, your educational training and you
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attended schools, possibly when, um, there was very little
about aboriginal people in your curriculum as you trained to
be, um, educators. And so (CLEARS THROAT) I thought that,
um, when I was invited I was given an opportunity to plan
this evening, um, and because the assumption that I’m making
is you have very little, um, background, that I thought that
probably it would be best for us to look at these issues but
to look at them against the, um, a ba-, a background.
Against a context within which aboriginal education has
emerged in this province. Um, I decided that we would meet
not at tables, but in a, in a semicircle to, in a way, bring
in the aboriginal context because for the circle is very
important and, um, um, and we use, often, what is now called
a medicine wheel but its, um, it’s become known as that and
you can see a black and white version here. Um, this is
used to organize information and to, um, circles are used
when we’re, when we are needing to come to some kind of an
agreement about something or that something needs to be
discussed. Solutions don’t necessarily, um, uh, present
themselves so nicely and neatly in a circle, but it moves
people towards, towards making, um, to coming to some
understanding. So the time that we’re going to spend
tonight, two hours, is not a very long time and, um, and so
I will, I, what my intention is, is that we’ll begin this
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circle this evening. (CLEARS THROAT) In the middle of
that, the very middle of that circle, there was, um, you saw
this. Um, whenever we’re looking at something that we need
to come to understand, we need to check our perceptions and
you see the word “see” there but it’s not only our visual
perceptions, but the perceptions that we have when we take
information into ourselves. And those perceptions
influence, influence and are influenced by, by our feeling
and our, by our thinking. And those drive what it is that
we do. It drives our action and so what I’m going, so I’m
going to try to, um, to do the first three this evening and
the decisions that you make and the actions that you’ll take
as individuals and as educators will be yours to make.
(CLEARS THROAT)
I want to say that, um, then that it’s often been then
believed but, uh, and again things have changed as I said,
in the last ten years, that aboriginal people did not have
formal learning, um, um ... environments. Or opportunities
for learning. And it’s true we didn’t have schools that we
do, that, that the Western culture does and has developed
but that there were, but each society, each culture, no
matter where it is in the world prepares the next generation
and the future generations in order to be able to, um, for,
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for life. For what, for what they’ll do in society. And
aboriginal people did not and we’re not different from that.
And so there was a lot of, a lot of, um, um ... (CLEARS
THROAT) a lot of time and effort and thought, uh, went into
planning this educational program for aboriginal children.
And often those began, um, at birth and sometimes prior to
that, through storytelling and through, um, the, the
community members and the family members introducing
themselves to me child and, and in introducing themselves to
this coming child, that they would talk about their social
systems, their history, uh, the ter-, the territory, the
land, the changes that, that they’ve seen in their life
times. And possibly what this person would be doing so
there was intention in, um, as each child came into the
community. And, um, you also, some of you have probably
heard that, um, aborginal children were thought to be, um,
that we learned best by, by experience, by doing and that we
observe and then we, then we do things. It’s true. All
children, I think, learn in this way. But, um, but in order
for observation and then, and then practice, and then
independent work to occur there, there needs to be great
thought put into preparing them to know how to observe and
to know how to organize information. And, um, (CLEARS
THROAT) ... and that it’s important for us to remember that
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the power and the source of our ability to make sense of the
unknown, to understand other cultures, to adapt to new
situations, depends on how well we know and understand those
first structures that we come into contact with and those
are our family structures, our social systems, our
traditions and our beliefs. Um, and again this is not
different for aboriginal people. It’s the same in any
culture. This is how we begin to develop our ways of
knowing and that we help our children to prepare for them.
Now the first, um, the, in this article by Don Rowlins, he
talks about, um, Chief Mr. Charles. Um, and his community,
uh, striking or taking their children out of school in order
to be able to make a point. To make some points and to move
things within the, within the educational school system. I
said that it’s not the only time that, that our First
Nations children have been used in, in such a way. The
children, education has been and we know as aborginal
people, the power that education has over people. It’s
probably the, the most powerful institution in any society.
And ... and we, as aboriginal people we probably know this
better than, than any other, um, than any other group. The
education from the time it began in this country in um, in
the 1600’s was, has been a tool that would, to change
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aborginal people, to simulate us, to assimilate us into a
European way of life. And that, um, that from the time the
first schools opened in, in the East, um, by Jesuits and the
Ursalean sisters that, um, that their goal was to, um, to
see if they could civilize aborginal people because the idea
was that, or the belief at the time was that we were not
civilized and um, and, in, in fact, in the, in the hundred
years prior to that there had been a debate as to whether we
were human. And that, um, and this was a debate that went
on in Europe because, because they had to understand how,
um, how to deal wtih the, us, who are here, in Nor-, in
North America when they arrived and, um, so there were two
notions that were put forward. One was that we were, um,
subhuman and the second was that we were, um, that we were
not far, very far along the path towards, on the
evolutionary path. And the second was that the land was an
empty land. That we didn’t, in fact, use the land and so,
in the 1600’s and, um, the, the educational system began but
I’m not going to deal with the educational system there. I
want us to focus on British Columbia even though this place
didn’t exist at, at that time.
Um, and that, um, (CLEARS THORAT) as the, as the colonists
moved across the country, um, the explorers and the traders
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um, came along and the third wave was always the
Missionaries. And the Missionaries purpose was to educate,
um, to educate us. And so for many of them, they learned
our languages very fluently, and um, and they fit themselves
into, into community, community life. And in many places in
British Columbia, um, they arrived often in the communities
in the summer places of the pepole. Because, of course,
they, it was difficult to travel in the winter time. In the
winter time. And, um, or in those places where winter
travel was easier, they went and they, and they met the
people in their winter locations. And, they began to bring
this notion of education into the community. And, um, um,
but what they started to do was they, they began to see
that, um, that it was, that they were not able to separate
the children who they felt that they could save, um, by, uh,
educating people in the community. And so they worked often
with, um, the chiefs or the leaders in the community to
first of all, to try to get them to, um, let go of some of
the so called heathen ways. And, um, and to change. So for
example in my community, um, polygamy was practiced and, um,
and there are still jokes that people tell about the priest
who was trying to convince the chief to give up his, uh,
give up three of his wives and, um, and they had lived, they
all lived in the same place and, um, (CLEARS THROAT) and so,
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the, the Missionaries then felt that they were, they were
really fighting a losing battle and so um, and so they, um,
began, they, they began to build schools, um, in certain
places in the province and they, and they divided the
province mainly into three groups. Um, the first group, um,
well one group was Roman Catholics and then the Anglicans
and the, the Methodists. And, um, and they began to do
their work and, um, in 19-, 1863, this is what Father Renot
said in, um, in one of his reports.
So what is this, what does this imply to you? What does
this say to you?
WOMAN There was no faith. There was no ____. There was no
order.
AGNES That it didn’t exist within, within our society.
And this, so this was in 1863 and this decade was in a,
was a very important one, um, in our history. Because
it was also in this decade that, um, that the British
North America Act was passed and what the, this Act did
was it gave administrative rights to Canada for
aboriginal people so it was only administrative rights.
Because all of the agreements that had beeen made, uh,
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up until this, at this point, to this point where made
with European governments, nation to nation. And so,
by assuming administrative rights, they were be for,
um, for the land question, uh, for, um, education, for
health, for social services. And so from this point on
all of those services for aboriginal people were a
Federal responsibility and so, by in Canada, um,
education, the health and social services are
Provincial responsibilites. And this will come up
again later because it comes up in this article about
funding in this Rawlin’s report. And so, the, the
Canadian Government then, of the, at the time began to
develop, began to carry out its responsibilites and
they, they saw that the Missionaries had already built
schools and that they had teachers in those schools and
so they decided that they would support the Missionary
work that had already started and that, um, and, but
that they would, um, increase the number of students
and the length of time that children would be sent to
these schools so they, they built the schools, the
residential schools bigger than they were so that they
could take more children. And, um ...
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... of survival. And so although its, um, people want
to think that these were, that what happened in
residential schools, um, happened be-, be-, on good
faith, on the good faith of people, but it’s still,
it’s, um, I guess it’s the idea that a group felt that
they knew better about what it was, knew better than we
did what was good for us. Um, much of the time after
these schools, um, was devoted at this, at this point
to, um, um, to studying the religion. Praying and, um,
and so on. The other was, there was the belief that,
um, that agriculture, that in order for us to move from
being hunters, gatherers, um, that this was a primitive
way of life, that it was important that we get moved
along the evolutionary path and that the next step, it
was believed, was that, that people as they move
towards civilization become, um, um, agrarian so they,
so that they become tillers of the soil and it was
believed that to till the soil was to be closer to God.
And so that they introduced, um, agriculture then into
the schools and so many of the students spent a lot of
time, um, um, gardening and, um, and looking after
domestic animals, even if they came from the North West
Coast where there’s in most places, agriculture, um,
doesn’t thrive and, um, and that they, and that
instead, they harvest the sea. And so that, um, the
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other part of residential schools was that um, was they
separated families and they separated, separated
(COUGHING IN BKGD) communities and so that, for
example, if a child came from, um, say the North, the
north, the North West, many of those children, so some
of those children were sent to Northern Alberta, to
North of Edmonton to school and the other part would be
moved, sent to me interior of British Colombia and to,
and others to, um, the West Coast of Vancouver Island.
It, um, it surprised us when we, when we looked back
on, back into the records. Uh, we knew that it
happened up until very recently, so for example, in my
family, um, the children in my family were sent to, um,
a Mission and, um, Kamloops and Williams Lake and it
wasn’t because they, the schools were empty in those
places but it was, it was to break the communication
within the families. It was to break the communication
within the community because language was, was known to
be very, very crucial to, um, um, having a control over
people. And so they did the same things when they
took the, the black Africans, um, um, into the United
States. They also separated them into different ships
from different communities. Much for the same reason.
So it was very deliberate and, um, and, and it was to
destroy the family.
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WOMAN Were they actually taken away from their families?
AGNES Yes. They were taken away, there were, there are
stories that, um, of, um, some of the families hidin g,
going into the, into the forest but, um, um, yes, but the,
the Government agents would come, come and take the
children.
WOMAN And the kids would never go home for holidays?
AGNES Um, in the earlier years, no. But in the later years,
depending on where you were, um, you would go home for the
summer and, um, the other part of this that, I guess that
you need to know is that, um, during the time that this
began in the later 1800’s, um, disease had already really
hit a lot of, a lot of the communities. So for example, in
reports by Tate, who, um, worked with Boaz, said that the
people in our area, the Lil’wat people went from about
thirty thousand to five hundred people from 1850 to about
1920, 1925. And so you can see that, how broken up the
communities already were. The other thing that was
happening was that wherever people were found, remember I
told you that they found people depending on whether they
travelled in winter or in summer, and so people were made to
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remain stationery and so that, um, on a certain territory
and so that if anyone wanted to, um, so if people left the
community, or left that area, the designated area, they had
to have written permission from, uh, from Indian agents and,
um, and this went on for, um, up until very, very recently.
Um, so movement then was, was restricted.
And while in those schools, um, the, our names were placed
by numbers and so that, um, so that you, so that you’re
identity was also stripped away. And speaking your own
language was illegal. Even though we did it, um, um,
whenever we, whenever we could as children, um, the other
thing was that during this time it was illegal to practice
many of the, the ceremonies and I’m sure that by now you’ve
heard of, you’ve heard of that, but the point that I want
to make by bringing that up, I want to make, is, um, that
the educational process played itself out in those
ceremonies so the ceremonies were actually, the place that,
um, that people told their history from the time of creation
to the present and they talked about the changes, the
changes in the land, the changes in life. And so to ban
those then, in a way, destroyed the vehicle that people had
of, of transmitting their, um, their knowledge to the next
generation.
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Um, so this began, this continued then un-, um, to, um, the,
the First World War. Um, some of the aboriginal did go, did
go to fight in, in the World War I and, um, and W.W.I had an
impact on aboriginal people because, um, um, because of what
was happening in the country and some of the land base was
removed because of, um, for the war veterans who were
returning. For aboriginal people who fought in the, the
W.W.I and W.W.II, many of them lost their status and so they
were not able to return home to their communities. Instead
they had, if they had families, they had to take their
families away because they no longer, it was illegal for
them to reside in, in their home communities if they fought
in the war. It was also, um, they were also not given, um,
the same kinds of benefits that war veterans received who,
who fought in the war.
And, uh, the other thing that was, that began to change in
the school system at that time, was, um, was that they began
to shift from agriculture towards industrialism. So they
thought that, because the belie f was that we didn’t have,
um, a time concept, that we didn’t have a work ethic, that,
that we had to learn how to work and so they brought
industry into the schools. Um, after the First World War
and so that, um, so that people in the, in the residential
schools learned some kind of trade and, um, and they kept
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the residential schools quite economically viable so they
actually worked in order to, to ru-, operate the schools.
And, because the government was not giving, um, enough funds
for, um, for, for education of First Nations children. And
(CLEARS THROAT) and this continued until, um, then the
Second World War happened and again, the, there was some
land was, the land base was eroded and, um, and many of the
jobs, um, in the, in this, in the residential schools were,
were given to people who were returning from the wars, who
didn’t have jobs elsewhere. The other thing was, that, um,
around 1930 some schools, they began to build schools
closer, within the, the reserve lands. And so some of the
larger reserves then had schools that went from, um, grade
one to grade ten and many of the teachers, and there were
some teachers in those schools who were trained teachers,
but the majority of the teachers who were in these schools
were not trained teachers. So, uh, from about 1930 then
until, um, uh, 1960, around there, there was, children
either, were either now kept in, on the reserves and
attending these reserves schools. The Federal day schools
they were called or they were, they still were sent to
residential schools. And, um ... um, I want to show you,
um, no ... I’ll just continue a little bit further. In 19-,
um, -47, there was, there was a shift and so 1947 is another
important, important date and because in 1947, in 1946 there
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was a paper was commissioned by the, by the two Houses of
Parliament to study what was happening with, with Indians in
Canada. And, um, Diamond Jeness, an anthropologist was, um,
um, uh, was given the, the task of writing a paper that
would be used for discussion. And he wrote a paper called
Liquidating Canada’s Indians in twenty-five years. And what
he meant by liquidating Canada’s Indians in twenty-five
years, was that, that they felt that segregated schools and
segregated land area was, was in fact, hindering aboriginal
people from becoming Europeanized and so, and so they began
then to develop a plan to bring us into Canada. So up until
then, we were still considered to be outside of Canada and
that aboriginal people did not have any, um, um, did not
have any say in whatever happened in our lives so that
children, the parents were not participants in educational
decision making for their children. Um, their movements, as
I said, were restricted. The Governments, the local
Governments, the Chief in Council had been replaced, you
know, the, the, the traditional leadership had been trac-,
replaced by Chief and Band Council. And anybody, and so,
and the voting system was brought in, was, was introduced
and, um, so people will say, well that’s Democracy, that’s,
that’s a good way. But, what often people don’t know is
that up until even today, when a community votes in a Chief
or its councilors, those people have to be, um, Ottawa has
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to approve of all of those people. So the people vote, and
they vote in people, but if Ottawa feels that they’re not,
um, they, they were not repre-, they will not represent
their, their people, they can be removed and so it’s, it’s
very difficult then to feel yourself to be in control when
you’re not in control, over anything. And, so, in 1947,
then, and so, at this time, also, aboriginal people were,
are not, could not vote. And could not attend public
schools. And, so, um, because, um, and so the plans then
were, were put into place, to, um, to change this. And so
there was a real sense of failure at assimilating aboriginal
people through trying to fix us by segregating us. Fixing
us before we were, we were brought into this developing
country. So, for the aboriginal children then, and this now
is several generations, are removed from the community and
they’re not able to learn their way of life, or, um, or, um,
or what is important to their people, to their, they’re not
able to learn their histories and, um, their history’s way
of life, languages are devalued. And, um, because it was
felt that the only way we were going to learn English or
French, was if we, if our first language was, was destroyed.
Because it was a primitive language. Um, at the same time
then, where this was withheld from us, from, from children,
also participation in the life that was, that, of Canada
that was developing was also not part of our experience and
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so it was as though, for several generations we were held in
limbo. Suspended in limbo. And without really
understanding, um, this, this new world. And, so, the
movement then towards integration began then, as of 1947.
And, um, and what what happened, it took many more years
before, um, um, before, provisions were made for aboriginal
children to enter public schools. But I’d like to show you,
a video that I, that describes, um, um, that will give you a
little bit of a ...
(START OF VIDEO)
... until, um, some parts of the country ‘till, uh, 1982 ...
many of them closed in the sixties because, um, remember
the, the discussion paper, Liquidating Canada’s Indians in
Twenty Five Years, and so what that put into motion was, um,
was integration. Integration into public schools but it
took until about 1960 till the Federal Government and the
Provincial Government reached an agreement and which they
called the Master Tuition Agreement and this is, um,
agreements that were made by the Federal Government and
Provinces in which there was a transfer of payment for
educating aboriginal children from the Federal Government to
the Provinces. And, um, when it entered the Provincial
coffers the, the, the, that funding was not accountable to,
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and so it didn’t, so people didn’t necessarily need to spend
this for educating aboriginal children. It also took a
number of years to build schools, um, in neighbouring white
communities so that, so that it could accommodate
aboriginal chi-, aboriginal children living on the reserves.
WOMAN Agnes, can I just ask ... when that money from the
Master Tuition Agreement, did it go into general education
funds or just into general funds?
AGNES General education funds. Um, and that was for
operating and then there was additional funds for capital
because many of the schools needed to be built. Um, but
the, at that time also there was, there were very few, um,
there were many places in the North where the students
couldn’t, couldn’t easily to go a neighbouring white
community to a school so many of those children were sent
to, um, into the Lower Mainland. Into larger, into larger,
um, into cities. And towns. And they boarded with, um, um,
they boarded with, um, families or they were sent to the
residential schools and then from the residential schools
they attended public school and so they closed down the, the
school part of the, of the Missionary schools. Mm ... so
probably in the sixties then, um, as the children were then
were being sent back home and many of them strangers to
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their homes, um, the other, something else was happening and
that was that, um, the families by this time, many of the
families had broken down and I’m not going to say that it
was a hundred per cent but many. And what happened was
through the sev-, sixties and into the early seventies, the
children again were being removed and this time not for
education, but for social services. And so that many of the
children were being placed into adoptions, um, and we have
children now coming back to communities from all over the
world. From countries in Europe, from the United States
and, um, and, um, the other thing that was happening during
this time, remember I was telling you that the health care
was taken care of by the, by the Federal Government, many of
the aboriginal women, if they had more than, than three
babies, were, were often sterilized and without, without
people knowing, knowing about this. Or without permission.
And so, then the next important date I think, so during the
sixties, then, there was a transfer, um, occurring into the
public schools, but public schools were not prepared either
to be accepting these children who, for the most part they
didn’t know even existed. And so a comment that I hear
often, or that I’ve heard often in the last ten years is,
I’m a Canadian but I don’t, I didn’t know any of this ... or
I grew up near a reserve, but I never talked to any Indians
or I didn’t, or I didn’t know any. And, um, and so, um, so
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you can see then that the schools were not prepared for
the, for aboriginal children entering the school system.
Um, in 1967, the Liberal Government, um, um, presented a
White Paper and it was, and in this White Paper it w as do
to away with segregated education, it was a plan, it was a,
the initiation of a plan to do away with the reserve system
because it was felt that it was the reserve that was bad and
that if only aboriginal people would live with the rest of
the Canadians, they wouldn’t have the massive social
problems that existed in unemployment, um, family violence
in the high infant mortality, high suicide rates, the low
education levels, um, substance abuse, institutionalization,
cultural conflict and all of those, they thought existed
because of the reserve. And so they said, well in order for
us to deal with this, let’s just get rid of the reserve.
And, um, and so up until, um, the, the, around the mid-
fifties, it was illegal for aboriginal people to gather as a
group and, um, and it was illegal for aboriginal people to
raise funds to fight for their, for, for us to fight for our
rights. And, um, but there was a man in British Columbia
named George Manual who, who, um, when the White Paper came
out, went across the country and said, you know, like, it’s,
we have to do something about this. Because, because what
was being proposed, was the loss again of all our, of our
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land base and, um, and, um, and that, that the Federal,
Federal Government was passing onto the provinces their
responsibility, their fiscal responsibility. And, um, and
so the response from across the land, what focused again on
education and aboriginal people began, I guess, to say that,
that in order for us to take back our right to, um, to be
who we are, we have to have a say in education. And that
it’s important that we have, um, a say in what happens in
our children’s education. And so, they proposed another
document called Indian, A Control of Indian Education. And,
and, um, and the Federal Government at that time, agreed,
accepted this document. And this opened the door to, um, a
new era in which communities across Canada did assume
control over their education but it wasn’t really control
either, because they were still be controlled by, by, um, by
Ottawa, by the Federal Government. But there were two
things that the people said, all the way across the country,
that they wanted more than anything else. One was that, um,
that schools, um, assist in, in re-, in teaching again
aboriginal languages because by this time it was thought
that three of the languages here in British Columbia were
extinct and, um, and many of the languages were nearing
extinction and, um, in my community, um, the people at that
time, at the end of the sixties, the speakers of our
language were from about thirty, thirty-five and older and
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so we were one of the fortunate groups because our value had
remained quite isolated after the Gold Rush. The, things
closed and, and so we were able to maintain our language.
And so we were willing in those early years to take, to say
to the community, of course, educa-, we’re educators, we’ll
take this one. We’ll teach our children again how to speak
Lil’wat but then what we weren’t prepared for was, um, was
how powerful this, the psychological warfare had been and so
that even the, the speakers of the languages would not speak
to their children so it would be okay if we, if people,
like, of the, of the, the thirty five years old and up, they
would, they would sit around and they would speak Lil’wat
and, and all that would happen but as soon as the children
came, they stopped talking. And they reverted to English.
And it took us, um, it took us a long time to, first of all
to figure out what was happening. They were saying that we
had the responsibility but they would not take it and so
that, um, we had to devise ways in which our language, um,
was living again, in the community, for everyone and
secondly to ...
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... learning our language ... from our perspective,
from our point of view, and also for us to begin to,
you know, in a way reach beyond this cloud that hung
from, that hung between our past prior to contact and
prior to even, as close as, um, the 1800’s. To go
beyond this period of time to, to, to understand our
values and our traditions and our beliefs and where
those came from. And that we could decide what it was
important for us to give up and what it was important
for us to keep. That it was, that, and, um, and so
this process, I think has been continuing. So in 1973,
then, open to the Band controlled schools, and it
created opportunities for, for people to, to develop
curriculum, to develop ways of reteaching the language
and also, um, in, um, in beginning to learn some of our
history. So the sixties, then, were quite an
important, was an important decade for us. There were
lots of changes that occurred. And so you can see that
this was a law in British Columbia until 198-, until
1968. (CLEARS THROAT)
In um, 1986 I read an article that was really helpful to me,
by Jim Cummins and this is something that, um, aboriginal
people had been talking about for, you know, all the time,
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but, um, but he made a little map, a drawing that really,
that really helped us, I think, to understand (COUGHING IN
BKGD) to say what it is that we had been trying to say and
that is that in our classrooms, what gets played out, is
what people in society believe about those people who sit in
our rooms. And that the relationships within our
classrooms, mirrors and reflects the relationships in
society. And, that, um, and, and he talks about, um, these
four areas that, um, cultural and linguistic, uh,
incorporation that it’s important that we, that we
incorporate peoples’ cultures and, and languages into what
we do in the classrooms and that, but for as aboriginal
people, you see, our cul-, it was always thought that in
order for us to achieve in school, that we had to get rid of
who we were so that who we were was really, was, was the
culprit. So there was something innately wrong with us, and
that’s why we don’t do well in school. And even though
that’s not the case, and even though we can hold that we
don’t believe this, these ideas permeate society and so even
though none of you had read that law, but you see, that
still governed how we were, how we were perceived by people.
And so that we are not, um, able to participate in the
judicial system because ... why, because we were, we were
native. And, um, and so it’s important then that we, that
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whatever do in our schools and in our classrooms, we need to
remember this in the decisions that we make. The decisions
that we make at a policy level and the decisions, the, the
many decisions that we make as teachers and as, and as, and
as administrators. And so that if, in a curriculum,
children are being devalued, we need to address that. We
cannot just let it go. And so, um, the second is community
participation. Community participation. It’s often been
said that aboriginal people, families and parents don’t want
to participate or they don’t participate but we need to
examine what we mean by participation and do, how we invite
communities to participate in what goes on in our, in our
schools and in our classrooms. And for aboriginal people,
you can see that it’s only been thirty years since we’ve
been able to, to have a part in public schools, but also to
really have a say in any form of education. And so that we
need to find ways in which we can truly collaborate.
And, um, and in pedagogy, I want to say a little bit more
about this. Um, that it’s important that in whatever we do,
or however it is that we invite people to bring their
realities, their knowledge, their own histories into our
classroom, we need to be able to do that. We cannot
continue to lay on top, um, to lay Western education on top
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of, for everybody without acknowledging that we all come
into those classrooms with a history. And we need to find
ways to, to recognize that and to honour that. And in the
area of assessment, um, I heard recently, um, a report that
was presented, that was made by a school administrator that
had a significant number of aboriginal children in her
school. She had seventy five children, aboriginal children
in her school of three hundred. She wanted, she was asking
for psychological assessments and speech language
assessments on sixty eight of those children. Now that says
a lot about what it, about our ability, in our schools to
deal with aboriginal children.
I have one piece, one piece, another piece that I’d like to
share with you. This is, um, um, I shared this last piece
with you because, um, so even though we can say that, that,
um, for us this happened in the past, a hundred years ago,
but for aboriginal people, for indigenous people in other
parts of the world, it continues to happen. And so it’s
important that we examine, um, again, the policies that we
make and the decisions that we make. The curriculum
decisions, the instructional decisions that we make. Um, so
language, um, I think is a, is a really important issue. To
look at this, to look at, at language and communication and
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the interactional process and what happens when, when, when
that, um, um, when we, um, when the decisions we make
impinge on people’s right to transmit their knowledge in
their way to their children. Um, I think that this gives
you some background as to what it is that, that, um, that
you can plan and that you can do in your planning based on,
um, Don Rawlin’s article and the other kinds of, um, of
initiatives that you may be planning. And so I’d like to
bring this to a close and, um, (CLEARS THROAT) and one of
the other things that we, that we, that is important for us
to do, is I have not given you opportunity to ask questions
or to interact. I want, what I, in our way too, of
teaching, is, is listening to storytellers, listening to
people and reflecting on what it is that we hear. And so
sometimes when we ask, when we ask questions, we keep
ourselves from really hearing and really searching for an
answer that we, that is within each one of us. And so, but
I want to give you an opportunity, but what is also is
important is that each of you have an opportunity to, to say
something about the, um, about the stories you have heard
tonight and possibly, um, how, how it might help you in
making some decisions in, um ... I have a stone here. In
our way, um, something that’s really important is that we,
that we remember our connections with, with one another.
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That we also remember our connection with, with the earth
and so with this stone, I’d like you, um, to go in this
direction and take some time, um, to say something...
WOMAN I’m very moved by what you’ve told us about the family
structure and how powerful that must be to have survi ved
and I’m, I’m glad I was here. Thank you.
MAN It was interesting to hear a lot of, um, information that I
did not know before. And to realize how there was a
concerted effort to destroy a culture and it’ll have an
impact on the policies. I hope.
MAN Hopefully through your efforts and many of your own, that
you can continue to energize your culture so that it, it can
take its rightful place.
MAN I’ve been enlightened and, and, and shocked by, by the, by
what I saw on the video. And, um, I just, it moved me ...
greatly.
MAN I was saddened by some of the things that I saw and was
reminded of some of the things that, um, that we had done to
each other. And, um, I’m grateful for the reminder of our
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kinship and for the lesson that that has for us as we look
to, to do better. Thank you.
WOMAN A lot of things to think about. A lot of things to
digest. Um, makes we wonder about how well we’re treating
the people who are coming to our country right now.
WOMAN A lot of what I heard tonight, uh, I’ve heard before,
first hand from people that I’ve worked with and I find it
equally distressing every time I hear it.
MAN I was reminded of a Sioux Indian expression that I read
once. It said never criticize another person till you’ve
walked a mile in their moccasins. I feel tonight, I’ve
walked a long distance in someone else’s moccasins.
WOMAN I feel lucky to have another opportunity to learn from
you. Um, my role as a teacher ... what I learned tonight
has a great impact on me. And I would pass it on.
WOMAN This is about the fourth time I’ve heard you and each
time I hear you, uh, other neon signs go up in my mind about
the kinds of things that we still have to do and I hope I
hear you again and again and again until we don’t have to
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talk about this any more.
WOMAN I was privileged to see this film at an unveiling, if
you will, uh, when it first came out, _____ and, uh, we had
talked about it then and being brought up in British
Columbia and never hearing anything about the kinds of
things that happened to the Native people at that time until
I got to University, and, uh, I was angry then and I’m angry
now. And, it’s good to be able to talk about these kinds of
things in our classrooms and share the kinds of shame that
we have. At some level. And feeling responsible.
MAN Well, this is the first time I’ve seen you speak and I don’t
know when I’ve been so moved and disturbed by such a quiet
presentation. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
WOMAN (unclear)
MAN I have, I guess, in the past, having read and being aware of
some of the injustices, etc., that have happened, um, it
certainly had an impact on me then, but, no where near the
impact of sitting here this evening and listening to you
speak and watching the other audio visual presentations that
you brought with you. It certainly has had a very moving
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impact on me as far as driving a very, very sorry point
home.
WOMAN I too, um, am deeply moved by your presentation and it
reminds me of how often I’m moved very deeply by the young
native people that I teach. They are something very, very
special. And, and I thank you for that again. And I also,
um, it really brings home what we’re doing here in Canada
and the rest of the world and how important it is for us not
to just sit back and let that happen. Thank you.
MAN (unclear)
WOMAN ... time you speak in such an eloquent way, it confirms
for me the never ending fright that I have as an educator to
provide education for children that provides them with
dignity and self worth and eliminates the kind of pain that
we heard about tonight. I thank you for your presentation.
WOMAN Um, I just wanted to say this is the first time I’ve
heard you speak and it has really enlightened me and it’s
given me a lot to think about and reflect upon and I’ve also
felt this, a bond with my ancestors and yours. Thank you.
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BEEP
This is not a finished product. Characters speaking
languages other than English will eventually be subtitled.
For this demonstration video only, you will hear my voice
doing voiceover translations into English.
Good evening and welcome to our evening session. I hope
that you all had an opportunity to read the Rawlin’s article
and I’m sure that if you had, you’ll probably agree with me
that we are going to have to deal with some of those issues
that have, that are are raised in that article. And I know
Margaret indicated to you earlier that, uh, we would be
fortunate in having our First Nations Education Specialist,
Agnes Thomas with us and indeed she has been able to come
and I want to just briefly introduce her to you before I
turn the meeting over to Agnes. Uh, Agnes has had twenty
five years teaching experience and, as, as a teacher and as
a consultant and an advocate for First Nations, ah,
education. She has, um, worked throughout the province as a
consultant and a professional development facilitator
trainer. She is a founder of two learning institutes and
has worked with people from all over the world to develop
unique and highly effective approaches to education on a
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First Nations perspective. Uh, Agnes, we welcome you here
this evening. The floor is yours.
AGNES Thanks. I’d like to thank, um, Mr. Sullivan for
inviting me to come and spend some time with you. I received
the article that, um, that, uh, that you received today.
Um, although, um, this article points to some topics that
need to be, that we need to concern ourselves with, um, one
would be the use of children’s education to make a political
point. The second is, um, the, the funding and what happens
to educational funding for aboriginal children. Um, also,
the, it points out, uh, some of the, uh, the
underachievement and the lack of success of aboriginal
children in, in our schools. Uh, it also, uh, talks about
the displacing of Western culture when in the curriculum,
when we add First Nations culture in history into that
curriculum. Um, and another point, uh, around, um, the
hiring of teachers and other district staff in, um, uh, in
school districts. Um, although in the last, I would say ten
years, there have been many changes in, um, education for
aboriginal chidlren, but I think that it’s, um, it’s very
slow and there is often a lack of willingness to address
some of the issues that have been with us for a long time.
Many of you attended, um, your educational training and you
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attended schools, possibly when, um, there was very little
about aboriginal people in your curriculum as you trained to
be, um, educators. And so (CLEARS THROAT) I thought that,
um, when I was invited I was given an opportunity to plan
this evening, um, and because the assumption that I’m making
is you have very little, um, background, that I thought that
probably it would be best for us to look at these issues but
to look at them against the, um, a ba-, a background.
Against a context within which aboriginal education has
emerged in this province. Um, I decided that we would meet
not at tables, but in a, in a semicircle to, in a way, bring
in the aboriginal context because for the circle is very
important and, um, um, and we use, often, what is now called
a medicine wheel but its, um, it’s become known as that and
you can see a black and white version here. Um, this is
used to organize information and to, um, circles are used
when we’re, when we are needing to come to some kind of an
agreement about something or that something needs to be
discussed. Solutions don’t necessarily, um, uh, present
themselves so nicely and neatly in a circle, but it moves
people towards, towards making, um, to coming to some
understanding. So the time that we’re going to spend
tonight, two hours, is not a very long time and, um, and so
I will, I, what my intention is, is that we’ll begin this
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circle this evening. (CLEARS THROAT) In the middle of
that, the very middle of that circle, there was, um, you saw
this. Um, whenever we’re looking at something that we need
to come to understand, we need to check our perceptions and
you see the word “see” there but it’s not only our visual
perceptions, but the perceptions that we have when we take
information into ourselves. And those perceptions
influence, influence and are influenced by, by our feeling
and our, by our thinking. And those drive what it is that
we do. It drives our action and so what I’m going, so I’m
going to try to, um, to do the first three this evening and
the decisions that you make and the actions that you’ll take
as individuals and as educators will be yours to make.
(CLEARS THROAT)
I want to say that, um, then that it’s often been then
believed but, uh, and again things have changed as I said,
in the last ten years, that aboriginal people did not have
formal learning, um, um ... environments. Or opportunities
for learning. And it’s true we didn’t have schools that we
do, that, that the Western culture does and has developed
but that there were, but each society, each culture, no
matter where it is in the world prepares the next generation
and the future generations in order to be able to, um, for,
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for life. For what, for what they’ll do in society. And
aboriginal people did not and we’re not different from that.
And so there was a lot of, a lot of, um, um ... (CLEARS
THROAT) a lot of time and effort and thought, uh, went into
planning this educational program for aboriginal children.
And often those began, um, at birth and sometimes prior to
that, through storytelling and through, um, the, the
community members and the family members introducing
themselves to me child and, and in introducing themselves to
this coming child, that they would talk about their social
systems, their history, uh, the ter-, the territory, the
land, the changes that, that they’ve seen in their life
times. And possibly what this person would be doing so
there was intention in, um, as each child came into the
community. And, um, you also, some of you have probably
heard that, um, aborginal children were thought to be, um,
that we learned best by, by experience, by doing and that we
observe and then we, then we do things. It’s true. All
children, I think, learn in this way. But, um, but in order
for observation and then, and then practice, and then
independent work to occur there, there needs to be great
thought put into preparing them to know how to observe and
to know how to organize information. And, um, (CLEARS
THROAT) ... and that it’s important for us to remember that
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the power and the source of our ability to make sense of the
unknown, to understand other cultures, to adapt to new
situations, depends on how well we know and understand those
first structures that we come into contact with and those
are our family structures, our social systems, our
traditions and our beliefs. Um, and again this is not
different for aboriginal people. It’s the same in any
culture. This is how we begin to develop our ways of
knowing and that we help our children to prepare for them.
Now the first, um, the, in this article by Don Rowlins, he
talks about, um, Chief Mr. Charles. Um, and his community,
uh, striking or taking their children out of school in order
to be able to make a point. To make some points and to move
things within the, within the educational school system. I
said that it’s not the only time that, that our First
Nations children have been used in, in such a way. The
children, education has been and we know as aborginal
people, the power that education has over people. It’s
probably the, the most powerful institution in any society.
And ... and we, as aboriginal people we probably know this
better than, than any other, um, than any other group. The
education from the time it began in this country in um, in
the 1600’s was, has been a tool that would, to change
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aborginal people, to simulate us, to assimilate us into a
European way of life. And that, um, that from the time the
first schools opened in, in the East, um, by Jesuits and the
Ursalean sisters that, um, that their goal was to, um, to
see if they could civilize aborginal people because the idea
was that, or the belief at the time was that we were not
civilized and um, and, in, in fact, in the, in the hundred
years prior to that there had been a debate as to whether we
were human. And that, um, and this was a debate that went
on in Europe because, because they had to understand how,
um, how to deal wtih the, us, who are here, in Nor-, in
North America when they arrived and, um, so there were two
notions that were put forward. One was that we were, um,
subhuman and the second was that we were, um, that we were
not far, very far along the path towards, on the
evolutionary path. And the second was that the land was an
empty land. That we didn’t, in fact, use the land and so,
in the 1600’s and, um, the, the educational system began but
I’m not going to deal with the educational system there. I
want us to focus on British Columbia even though this place
didn’t exist at, at that time.
Um, and that, um, (CLEARS THORAT) as the, as the colonists
moved across the country, um, the explorers and the traders
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um, came along and the third wave was always the
Missionaries. And the Missionaries purpose was to educate,
um, to educate us. And so for many of them, they learned
our languages very fluently, and um, and they fit themselves
into, into community, community life. And in many places in
British Columbia, um, they arrived often in the communities
in the summer places of the pepole. Because, of course,
they, it was difficult to travel in the winter time. In the
winter time. And, um, or in those places where winter
travel was easier, they went and they, and they met the
people in their winter locations. And, they began to bring
this notion of education into the community. And, um, um,
but what they started to do was they, they began to see
that, um, that it was, that they were not able to separate
the children who they felt that they could save, um, by, uh,
educating people in the community. And so they worked often
with, um, the chiefs or the leaders in the community to
first of all, to try to get them to, um, let go of some of
the so called heathen ways. And, um, and to change. So for
example in my community, um, polygamy was practiced and, um,
and there are still jokes that people tell about the priest
who was trying to convince the chief to give up his, uh,
give up three of his wives and, um, and they had lived, they
all lived in the same place and, um, (CLEARS THROAT) and so,
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the, the Missionaries then felt that they were, they were
really fighting a losing battle and so um, and so they, um,
began, they, they began to build schools, um, in certain
places in the province and they, and they divided the
province mainly into three groups. Um, the first group, um,
well one group was Roman Catholics and then the Anglicans
and the, the Methodists. And, um, and they began to do
their work and, um, in 19-, 1863, this is what Father Renot
said in, um, in one of his reports.
So what is this, what does this imply to you? What does
this say to you?
WOMAN There was no faith. There was no ____. There was no
order.
AGNES That it didn’t exist within, within our society.
And this, so this was in 1863 and this decade was in a,
was a very important one, um, in our history. Because
it was also in this decade that, um, that the British
North America Act was passed and what the, this Act did
was it gave administrative rights to Canada for
aboriginal people so it was only administrative rights.
Because all of the agreements that had beeen made, uh,
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up until this, at this point, to this point where made
with European governments, nation to nation. And so,
by assuming administrative rights, they were be for,
um, for the land question, uh, for, um, education, for
health, for social services. And so from this point on
all of those services for aboriginal people were a
Federal responsibility and so, by in Canada, um,
education, the health and social services are
Provincial responsibilites. And this will come up
again later because it comes up in this article about
funding in this Rawlin’s report. And so, the, the
Canadian Government then, of the, at the time began to
develop, began to carry out its responsibilites and
they, they saw that the Missionaries had already built
schools and that they had teachers in those schools and
so they decided that they would support the Missionary
work that had already started and that, um, and, but
that they would, um, increase the number of students
and the length of time that children would be sent to
these schools so they, they built the schools, the
residential schools bigger than they were so that they
could take more children. And, um ...
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... of survival. And so although its, um, people want
to think that these were, that what happened in
residential schools, um, happened be-, be-, on good
faith, on the good faith of people, but it’s still,
it’s, um, I guess it’s the idea that a group felt that
they knew better about what it was, knew better than we
did what was good for us. Um, much of the time after
these schools, um, was devoted at this, at this point
to, um, um, to studying the religion. Praying and, um,
and so on. The other was, there was the belief that,
um, that agriculture, that in order for us to move from
being hunters, gatherers, um, that this was a primitive
way of life, that it was important that we get moved
along the evolutionary path and that the next step, it
was believed, was that, that people as they move
towards civilization become, um, um, agrarian so they,
so that they become tillers of the soil and it was
believed that to till the soil was to be closer to God.
And so that they introduced, um, agriculture then into
the schools and so many of the students spent a lot of
time, um, um, gardening and, um, and looking after
domestic animals, even if they came from the North West
Coast where there’s in most places, agriculture, um,
doesn’t thrive and, um, and that they, and that
instead, they harvest the sea. And so that, um, the
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other part of residential schools was that um, was they
separated families and they separated, separated
(COUGHING IN BKGD) communities and so that, for
example, if a child came from, um, say the North, the
north, the North West, many of those children, so some
of those children were sent to Northern Alberta, to
North of Edmonton to school and the other part would be
moved, sent to me interior of British Colombia and to,
and others to, um, the West Coast of Vancouver Island.
It, um, it surprised us when we, when we looked back
on, back into the records. Uh, we knew that it
happened up until very recently, so for example, in my
family, um, the children in my family were sent to, um,
a Mission and, um, Kamloops and Williams Lake and it
wasn’t because they, the schools were empty in those
places but it was, it was to break the communication
within the families. It was to break the communication
within the community because language was, was known to
be very, very crucial to, um, um, having a control over
people. And so they did the same things when they
took the, the black Africans, um, um, into the United
States. They also separated them into different ships
from different communities. Much for the same reason.
So it was very deliberate and, um, and, and it was to
destroy the family.
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WOMAN Were they actually taken away from their families?
AGNES Yes. They were taken away, there were, there are
stories that, um, of, um, some of the families hidin g,
going into the, into the forest but, um, um, yes, but the,
the Government agents would come, come and take the
children.
WOMAN And the kids would never go home for holidays?
AGNES Um, in the earlier years, no. But in the later years,
depending on where you were, um, you would go home for the
summer and, um, the other part of this that, I guess that
you need to know is that, um, during the time that this
began in the later 1800’s, um, disease had already really
hit a lot of, a lot of the communities. So for example, in
reports by Tate, who, um, worked with Boaz, said that the
people in our area, the Lil’wat people went from about
thirty thousand to five hundred people from 1850 to about
1920, 1925. And so you can see that, how broken up the
communities already were. The other thing that was
happening was that wherever people were found, remember I
told you that they found people depending on whether they
travelled in winter or in summer, and so people were made to
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remain stationery and so that, um, on a certain territory
and so that if anyone wanted to, um, so if people left the
community, or left that area, the designated area, they had
to have written permission from, uh, from Indian agents and,
um, and this went on for, um, up until very, very recently.
Um, so movement then was, was restricted.
And while in those schools, um, the, our names were placed
by numbers and so that, um, so that you, so that you’re
identity was also stripped away. And speaking your own
language was illegal. Even though we did it, um, um,
whenever we, whenever we could as children, um, the other
thing was that during this time it was illegal to practice
many of the, the ceremonies and I’m sure that by now you’ve
heard of, you’ve heard of that, but the point that I want
to make by bringing that up, I want to make, is, um, that
the educational process played itself out in those
ceremonies so the ceremonies were actually, the place that,
um, that people told their history from the time of creation
to the present and they talked about the changes, the
changes in the land, the changes in life. And so to ban
those then, in a way, destroyed the vehicle that people had
of, of transmitting their, um, their knowledge to the next
generation.
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Um, so this began, this continued then un-, um, to, um, the,
the First World War. Um, some of the aboriginal did go, did
go to fight in, in the World War I and, um, and W.W.I had an
impact on aboriginal people because, um, um, because of what
was happening in the country and some of the land base was
removed because of, um, for the war veterans who were
returning. For aboriginal people who fought in the, the
W.W.I and W.W.II, many of them lost their status and so they
were not able to return home to their communities. Instead
they had, if they had families, they had to take their
families away because they no longer, it was illegal for
them to reside in, in their home communities if they fought
in the war. It was also, um, they were also not given, um,
the same kinds of benefits that war veterans received who,
who fought in the war.
And, uh, the other thing that was, that began to change in
the school system at that time, was, um, was that they began
to shift from agriculture towards industrialism. So they
thought that, because the belie f was that we didn’t have,
um, a time concept, that we didn’t have a work ethic, that,
that we had to learn how to work and so they brought
industry into the schools. Um, after the First World War
and so that, um, so that people in the, in the residential
schools learned some kind of trade and, um, and they kept
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the residential schools quite economically viable so they
actually worked in order to, to ru-, operate the schools.
And, because the government was not giving, um, enough funds
for, um, for, for education of First Nations children. And
(CLEARS THROAT) and this continued until, um, then the
Second World War happened and again, the, there was some
land was, the land base was eroded and, um, and many of the
jobs, um, in the, in this, in the residential schools were,
were given to people who were returning from the wars, who
didn’t have jobs elsewhere. The other thing was, that, um,
around 1930 some schools, they began to build schools
closer, within the, the reserve lands. And so some of the
larger reserves then had schools that went from, um, grade
one to grade ten and many of the teachers, and there were
some teachers in those schools who were trained teachers,
but the majority of the teachers who were in these schools
were not trained teachers. So, uh, from about 1930 then
until, um, uh, 1960, around there, there was, children
either, were either now kept in, on the reserves and
attending these reserves schools. The Federal day schools
they were called or they were, they still were sent to
residential schools. And, um ... um, I want to show you,
um, no ... I’ll just continue a little bit further. In 19-,
um, -47, there was, there was a shift and so 1947 is another
important, important date and because in 1947, in 1946 there
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was a paper was commissioned by the, by the two Houses of
Parliament to study what was happening with, with Indians in
Canada. And, um, Diamond Jeness, an anthropologist was, um,
um, uh, was given the, the task of writing a paper that
would be used for discussion. And he wrote a paper called
Liquidating Canada’s Indians in twenty-five years. And what
he meant by liquidating Canada’s Indians in twenty-five
years, was that, that they felt that segregated schools and
segregated land area was, was in fact, hindering aboriginal
people from becoming Europeanized and so, and so they began
then to develop a plan to bring us into Canada. So up until
then, we were still considered to be outside of Canada and
that aboriginal people did not have any, um, um, did not
have any say in whatever happened in our lives so that
children, the parents were not participants in educational
decision making for their children. Um, their movements, as
I said, were restricted. The Governments, the local
Governments, the Chief in Council had been replaced, you
know, the, the, the traditional leadership had been trac-,
replaced by Chief and Band Council. And anybody, and so,
and the voting system was brought in, was, was introduced
and, um, so people will say, well that’s Democracy, that’s,
that’s a good way. But, what often people don’t know is
that up until even today, when a community votes in a Chief
or its councilors, those people have to be, um, Ottawa has
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to approve of all of those people. So the people vote, and
they vote in people, but if Ottawa feels that they’re not,
um, they, they were not repre-, they will not represent
their, their people, they can be removed and so it’s, it’s
very difficult then to feel yourself to be in control when
you’re not in control, over anything. And, so, in 1947,
then, and so, at this time, also, aboriginal people were,
are not, could not vote. And could not attend public
schools. And, so, um, because, um, and so the plans then
were, were put into place, to, um, to change this. And so
there was a real sense of failure at assimilating aboriginal
people through trying to fix us by segregating us. Fixing
us before we were, we were brought into this developing
country. So, for the aboriginal children then, and this now
is several generations, are removed from the community and
they’re not able to learn their way of life, or, um, or, um,
or what is important to their people, to their, they’re not
able to learn their histories and, um, their history’s way
of life, languages are devalued. And, um, because it was
felt that the only way we were going to learn English or
French, was if we, if our first language was, was destroyed.
Because it was a primitive language. Um, at the same time
then, where this was withheld from us, from, from children,
also participation in the life that was, that, of Canada
that was developing was also not part of our experience and
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so it was as though, for several generations we were held in
limbo. Suspended in limbo. And without really
understanding, um, this, this new world. And, so, the
movement then towards integration began then, as of 1947.
And, um, and what what happened, it took many more years
before, um, um, before, provisions were made for aboriginal
children to enter public schools. But I’d like to show you,
a video that I, that describes, um, um, that will give you a
little bit of a ...
(START OF VIDEO)
... until, um, some parts of the country ‘till, uh, 1982 ...
many of them closed in the sixties because, um, remember
the, the discussion paper, Liquidating Canada’s Indians in
Twenty Five Years, and so what that put into motion was, um,
was integration. Integration into public schools but it
took until about 1960 till the Federal Government and the
Provincial Government reached an agreement and which they
called the Master Tuition Agreement and this is, um,
agreements that were made by the Federal Government and
Provinces in which there was a transfer of payment for
educating aboriginal children from the Federal Government to
the Provinces. And, um, when it entered the Provincial
coffers the, the, the, that funding was not accountable to,
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and so it didn’t, so people didn’t necessarily need to spend
this for educating aboriginal children. It also took a
number of years to build schools, um, in neighbouring white
communities so that, so that it could accommodate
aboriginal chi-, aboriginal children living on the reserves.
WOMAN Agnes, can I just ask ... when that money from the
Master Tuition Agreement, did it go into general education
funds or just into general funds?
AGNES General education funds. Um, and that was for
operating and then there was additional funds for capital
because many of the schools needed to be built. Um, but
the, at that time also there was, there were very few, um,
there were many places in the North where the students
couldn’t, couldn’t easily to go a neighbouring white
community to a school so many of those children were sent
to, um, into the Lower Mainland. Into larger, into larger,
um, into cities. And towns. And they boarded with, um, um,
they boarded with, um, families or they were sent to the
residential schools and then from the residential schools
they attended public school and so they closed down the, the
school part of the, of the Missionary schools. Mm ... so
probably in the sixties then, um, as the children were then
were being sent back home and many of them strangers to
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their homes, um, the other, something else was happening and
that was that, um, the families by this time, many of the
families had broken down and I’m not going to say that it
was a hundred per cent but many. And what happened was
through the sev-, sixties and into the early seventies, the
children again were being removed and this time not for
education, but for social services. And so that many of the
children were being placed into adoptions, um, and we have
children now coming back to communities from all over the
world. From countries in Europe, from the United States
and, um, and, um, the other thing that was happening during
this time, remember I was telling you that the health care
was taken care of by the, by the Federal Government, many of
the aboriginal women, if they had more than, than three
babies, were, were often sterilized and without, without
people knowing, knowing about this. Or without permission.
And so, then the next important date I think, so during the
sixties, then, there was a transfer, um, occurring into the
public schools, but public schools were not prepared either
to be accepting these children who, for the most part they
didn’t know even existed. And so a comment that I hear
often, or that I’ve heard often in the last ten years is,
I’m a Canadian but I don’t, I didn’t know any of this ... or
I grew up near a reserve, but I never talked to any Indians
or I didn’t, or I didn’t know any. And, um, and so, um, so
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you can see then that the schools were not prepared for
the, for aboriginal children entering the school system.
Um, in 1967, the Liberal Government, um, um, presented a
White Paper and it was, and in this White Paper it w as do
to away with segregated education, it was a plan, it was a,
the initiation of a plan to do away with the reserve system
because it was felt that it was the reserve that was bad and
that if only aboriginal people would live with the rest of
the Canadians, they wouldn’t have the massive social
problems that existed in unemployment, um, family violence
in the high infant mortality, high suicide rates, the low
education levels, um, substance abuse, institutionalization,
cultural conflict and all of those, they thought existed
because of the reserve. And so they said, well in order for
us to deal with this, let’s just get rid of the reserve.
And, um, and so up until, um, the, the, around the mid-
fifties, it was illegal for aboriginal people to gather as a
group and, um, and it was illegal for aboriginal people to
raise funds to fight for their, for, for us to fight for our
rights. And, um, but there was a man in British Columbia
named George Manual who, who, um, when the White Paper came
out, went across the country and said, you know, like, it’s,
we have to do something about this. Because, because what
was being proposed, was the loss again of all our, of our
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land base and, um, and, um, and that, that the Federal,
Federal Government was passing onto the provinces their
responsibility, their fiscal responsibility. And, um, and
so the response from across the land, what focused again on
education and aboriginal people began, I guess, to say that,
that in order for us to take back our right to, um, to be
who we are, we have to have a say in education. And that
it’s important that we have, um, a say in what happens in
our children’s education. And so, they proposed another
document called Indian, A Control of Indian Education. And,
and, um, and the Federal Government at that time, agreed,
accepted this document. And this opened the door to, um, a
new era in which communities across Canada did assume
control over their education but it wasn’t really control
either, because they were still be controlled by, by, um, by
Ottawa, by the Federal Government. But there were two
things that the people said, all the way across the country,
that they wanted more than anything else. One was that, um,
that schools, um, assist in, in re-, in teaching again
aboriginal languages because by this time it was thought
that three of the languages here in British Columbia were
extinct and, um, and many of the languages were nearing
extinction and, um, in my community, um, the people at that
time, at the end of the sixties, the speakers of our
language were from about thirty, thirty-five and older and
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so we were one of the fortunate groups because our value had
remained quite isolated after the Gold Rush. The, things
closed and, and so we were able to maintain our language.
And so we were willing in those early years to take, to say
to the community, of course, educa-, we’re educators, we’ll
take this one. We’ll teach our children again how to speak
Lil’wat but then what we weren’t prepared for was, um, was
how powerful this, the psychological warfare had been and so
that even the, the speakers of the languages would not speak
to their children so it would be okay if we, if people,
like, of the, of the, the thirty five years old and up, they
would, they would sit around and they would speak Lil’wat
and, and all that would happen but as soon as the children
came, they stopped talking. And they reverted to English.
And it took us, um, it took us a long time to, first of all
to figure out what was happening. They were saying that we
had the responsibility but they would not take it and so
that, um, we had to devise ways in which our language, um,
was living again, in the community, for everyone and
secondly to ...
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... learning our language ... from our perspective,
from our point of view, and also for us to begin to,
you know, in a way reach beyond this cloud that hung
from, that hung between our past prior to contact and
prior to even, as close as, um, the 1800’s. To go
beyond this period of time to, to, to understand our
values and our traditions and our beliefs and where
those came from. And that we could decide what it was
important for us to give up and what it was important
for us to keep. That it was, that, and, um, and so
this process, I think has been continuing. So in 1973,
then, open to the Band controlled schools, and it
created opportunities for, for people to, to develop
curriculum, to develop ways of reteaching the language
and also, um, in, um, in beginning to learn some of our
history. So the sixties, then, were quite an
important, was an important decade for us. There were
lots of changes that occurred. And so you can see that
this was a law in British Columbia until 198-, until
1968. (CLEARS THROAT)
In um, 1986 I read an article that was really helpful to me,
by Jim Cummins and this is something that, um, aboriginal
people had been talking about for, you know, all the time,
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but, um, but he made a little map, a drawing that really,
that really helped us, I think, to understand (COUGHING IN
BKGD) to say what it is that we had been trying to say and
that is that in our classrooms, what gets played out, is
what people in society believe about those people who sit in
our rooms. And that the relationships within our
classrooms, mirrors and reflects the relationships in
society. And, that, um, and, and he talks about, um, these
four areas that, um, cultural and linguistic, uh,
incorporation that it’s important that we, that we
incorporate peoples’ cultures and, and languages into what
we do in the classrooms and that, but for as aboriginal
people, you see, our cul-, it was always thought that in
order for us to achieve in school, that we had to get rid of
who we were so that who we were was really, was, was the
culprit. So there was something innately wrong with us, and
that’s why we don’t do well in school. And even though
that’s not the case, and even though we can hold that we
don’t believe this, these ideas permeate society and so even
though none of you had read that law, but you see, that
still governed how we were, how we were perceived by people.
And so that we are not, um, able to participate in the
judicial system because ... why, because we were, we were
native. And, um, and so it’s important then that we, that
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whatever do in our schools and in our classrooms, we need to
remember this in the decisions that we make. The decisions
that we make at a policy level and the decisions, the, the
many decisions that we make as teachers and as, and as, and
as administrators. And so that if, in a curriculum,
children are being devalued, we need to address that. We
cannot just let it go. And so, um, the second is community
participation. Community participation. It’s often been
said that aboriginal people, families and parents don’t want
to participate or they don’t participate but we need to
examine what we mean by participation and do, how we invite
communities to participate in what goes on in our, in our
schools and in our classrooms. And for aboriginal people,
you can see that it’s only been thirty years since we’ve
been able to, to have a part in public schools, but also to
really have a say in any form of education. And so that we
need to find ways in which we can truly collaborate.
And, um, and in pedagogy, I want to say a little bit more
about this. Um, that it’s important that in whatever we do,
or however it is that we invite people to bring their
realities, their knowledge, their own histories into our
classroom, we need to be able to do that. We cannot
continue to lay on top, um, to lay Western education on top
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of, for everybody without acknowledging that we all come
into those classrooms with a history. And we need to find
ways to, to recognize that and to honour that. And in the
area of assessment, um, I heard recently, um, a report that
was presented, that was made by a school administrator that
had a significant number of aboriginal children in her
school. She had seventy five children, aboriginal children
in her school of three hundred. She wanted, she was asking
for psychological assessments and speech language
assessments on sixty eight of those children. Now that says
a lot about what it, about our ability, in our schools to
deal with aboriginal children.
I have one piece, one piece, another piece that I’d like to
share with you. This is, um, um, I shared this last piece
with you because, um, so even though we can say that, that,
um, for us this happened in the past, a hundred years ago,
but for aboriginal people, for indigenous people in other
parts of the world, it continues to happen. And so it’s
important that we examine, um, again, the policies that we
make and the decisions that we make. The curriculum
decisions, the instructional decisions that we make. Um, so
language, um, I think is a, is a really important issue. To
look at this, to look at, at language and communication and
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the interactional process and what happens when, when, when
that, um, um, when we, um, when the decisions we make
impinge on people’s right to transmit their knowledge in
their way to their children. Um, I think that this gives
you some background as to what it is that, that, um, that
you can plan and that you can do in your planning based on,
um, Don Rawlin’s article and the other kinds of, um, of
initiatives that you may be planning. And so I’d like to
bring this to a close and, um, (CLEARS THROAT) and one of
the other things that we, that we, that is important for us
to do, is I have not given you opportunity to ask questions
or to interact. I want, what I, in our way too, of
teaching, is, is listening to storytellers, listening to
people and reflecting on what it is that we hear. And so
sometimes when we ask, when we ask questions, we keep
ourselves from really hearing and really searching for an
answer that we, that is within each one of us. And so, but
I want to give you an opportunity, but what is also is
important is that each of you have an opportunity to, to say
something about the, um, about the stories you have heard
tonight and possibly, um, how, how it might help you in
making some decisions in, um ... I have a stone here. In
our way, um, something that’s really important is that we,
that we remember our connections with, with one another.
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That we also remember our connection with, with the earth
and so with this stone, I’d like you, um, to go in this
direction and take some time, um, to say something...
WOMAN I’m very moved by what you’ve told us about the family
structure and how powerful that must be to have survi ved
and I’m, I’m glad I was here. Thank you.
MAN It was interesting to hear a lot of, um, information that I
did not know before. And to realize how there was a
concerted effort to destroy a culture and it’ll have an
impact on the policies. I hope.
MAN Hopefully through your efforts and many of your own, that
you can continue to energize your culture so that it, it can
take its rightful place.
MAN I’ve been enlightened and, and, and shocked by, by the, by
what I saw on the video. And, um, I just, it moved me ...
greatly.
MAN I was saddened by some of the things that I saw and was
reminded of some of the things that, um, that we had done to
each other. And, um, I’m grateful for the reminder of our
PAGE - VR 94
The Mind of a Child
Face to Face Media Ltd.
QUEEN’S HARBOUR
VR 94 - LORNA WILLIAMS
kinship and for the lesson that that has for us as we look
to, to do better. Thank you.
WOMAN A lot of things to think about. A lot of things to
digest. Um, makes we wonder about how well we’re treating
the people who are coming to our country right now.
WOMAN A lot of what I heard tonight, uh, I’ve heard before,
first hand from people that I’ve worked with and I find it
equally distressing every time I hear it.
MAN I was reminded of a Sioux Indian expression that I read
once. It said never criticize another person till you’ve
walked a mile in their moccasins. I feel tonight, I’ve
walked a long distance in someone else’s moccasins.
WOMAN I feel lucky to have another opportunity to learn from
you. Um, my role as a teacher ... what I learned tonight
has a great impact on me. And I would pass it on.
WOMAN This is about the fourth time I’ve heard you and each
time I hear you, uh, other neon signs go up in my mind about
the kinds of things that we still have to do and I hope I
hear you again and again and again until we don’t have to
PAGE - VR 94
The Mind of a Child
Face to Face Media Ltd.
QUEEN’S HARBOUR
VR 94 - LORNA WILLIAMS
talk about this any more.
WOMAN I was privileged to see this film at an unveiling, if
you will, uh, when it first came out, _____ and, uh, we had
talked about it then and being brought up in British
Columbia and never hearing anything about the kinds of
things that happened to the Native people at that time until
I got to University, and, uh, I was angry then and I’m angry
now. And, it’s good to be able to talk about these kinds of
things in our classrooms and share the kinds of shame that
we have. At some level. And feeling responsible.
MAN Well, this is the first time I’ve seen you speak and I don’t
know when I’ve been so moved and disturbed by such a quiet
presentation. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
WOMAN (unclear)
MAN I have, I guess, in the past, having read and being aware of
some of the injustices, etc., that have happened, um, it
certainly had an impact on me then, but, no where near the
impact of sitting here this evening and listening to you
speak and watching the other audio visual presentations that
you brought with you. It certainly has had a very moving
PAGE - VR 94
The Mind of a Child
Face to Face Media Ltd.
QUEEN’S HARBOUR
VR 94 - LORNA WILLIAMS
impact on me as far as driving a very, very sorry point
home.
WOMAN I too, um, am deeply moved by your presentation and it
reminds me of how often I’m moved very deeply by the young
native people that I teach. They are something very, very
special. And, and I thank you for that again. And I also,
um, it really brings home what we’re doing here in Canada
and the rest of the world and how important it is for us not
to just sit back and let that happen. Thank you.
MAN (unclear)
WOMAN ... time you speak in such an eloquent way, it confirms
for me the never ending fright that I have as an educator to
provide education for children that provides them with
dignity and self worth and eliminates the kind of pain that
we heard about tonight. I thank you for your presentation.
WOMAN Um, I just wanted to say this is the first time I’ve
heard you speak and it has really enlightened me and it’s
given me a lot to think about and reflect upon and I’ve also
felt this, a bond with my ancestors and yours. Thank you.
PAGE - VR 94
Production material relates to a short documentary entitled “First Nations Education, 1860-1970” for the Vancouver School Board’s Queen's Harbour Institute project, a multi-day series of workshops and discussions on current issues in education centred around the fictional Queen’s Harbour School Board. The documentary focuses on the history of education and education policy as it has impacted Indigenous peoples in British Columbia. It centres around a presentation given by Lorna Wanosts’a7 Williams in Cowichan Bay as part of the Queen’s Harbour project interspersed with archival photographs and moving image material, as well as material also used in "The Mind of a Child” documentary. Part of the original recording of Wanosts’a7’s presentation is also included. Wanosts’a7 is referred to as Agnes Thomas at various points in the presentation. This is likely related to the format of the Queen's Harbour project for which the documentary was being prepared. The presentation runs from 10:34 on tape VR92, and continues until the end of tape VR94. While the Archives retains the tape intended to have the second part, VR93 [2017-057-004-062], it appears to have been altered prior to being transferred to the Archives and thus no longer contain this segment of the presentation. The content of the missing segment can be found by consulting the transcript. Additional material featuring David Tzuriel talking with Clarissa and Alida Pascal at the Variety Learning Centre proceeds the beginning of the presentation. This material relates more closely with “The Mind of A Child” documentary.
- In Collection:
- Video roll: VR94
- Video roll: VR93
- Video roll: VR92
- 01:24:41
- 49.24966, -123.11934
- 50.31667, -122.71667
- 48.73366, -123.61739
- 53.99983, -125.0032
- 2 videocassettes : analog, col., Betacam SP1 video reel : analog, col., 1” Type C1 VHS cassette jacket
- Lorna Wánosts’a7 Williams Face to Face Media Collection
- Digitized in collaboration with the Steven Spielberg Jewish Film Archive at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
- Accession Number: 2017-057
- Special Collections Finding Aid: https://uvic2.coppul.archivematica.org/face-to-face-media-fonds
- August 27, 2020 to September 8, 2020
- Transcripts of the presentation were created by Face to Face Media for use during post-production and have been provided unedited.Digitized by the The MediaPreserve. Access files created by University of Victoria Special Collections and University Archives. Metadata by Matt Innes.
- Rights
- This material is made available on this site for research and private study only.
- DOI
This page supports the Zotero and Mendeley browser extensions simply click on the extension widget in your browser to save the objects citation.
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR92 – Transcript | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR93 – Transcript | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR94 – Video | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR94 – Cassette front | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR94 – Cassette side | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour lecture, VR94 – Transcript | Public | ||
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Queen’s Harbour: First Nations Education, 1860-1970 – Video | Public |