Charles, John A.: my Navy recollections (June 2 - September 4, 1980)
PublicABSTRACT: Rear-Admiral John A. Charles, C.M.M. Royal Canadian Navy (Reel 1, Side 1) Born in 1919 in Saskatchewan. First applied to the Royal Military College of Canada (R.M.C.) in 1934, but was deemed to be too young. Completed a year at Notre Dame University (Sask.) and was enrolled at R.M.C. in 1935. Discusses the drastic change of routine required of recruits at R.M.C. Elected to take summer training (ashore) with the Navy at Halifax. Toward the end of the second year at R.M.C. he made the decision to make the Royal Canadian Navy his career. As one of three military college cadets in a group of ten was sent to England for training. Uniformed at Gieves, the naval tailors, and reported to H.M.S. Erebus (monitor) at Portsmouth. Instructed in naval drill, customs, seamanship, and after three months joined the training cruiser, H.M.S. Vindictive in which the cadets acted as crew. Three cruises per year: winter, West Indies; summer, the Baltic; fall, the Mediterranean. Much boat work and a certain amount of pleasant social life. Promoted to midshipman and appointed to H.M.S. Royal Sovereign (battleship) where he was given command of a picket boat and acted as captain of a fifteen-inch gun turret. After a few months joined H.M.S. Berwick (cruiser). "Showed the flag" in the West Indies; World's Fair, 1939 in New York, then the Maritime Provinces. Considerable practice for war that they felt was coming and at Bar Harbor, Maine on Sept. 1, 1939 were officially ordered to prepare for war. Attempted to intercept the German liner, Bremen off New York and conducted searches for other enemy ships. On patrol near Iceland intercepted two German ships, captured crews, ships sunk. H.M.S. Berwick was cold and uncomfortable since she had been built for tropical service. In 1940 the ship participated in the Norwegian campaign. Air attack showed the inadequacies of their anti-aircraft protection, partially due to insufficient ammunition capacity. At the time felt that British efforts in Norway were not very effective. Promoted to acting sub-lieutenant, courses at Portsmouth. (48:00) (Reel 1, Side 2) Gunnery, navigation and signals taught to a class of sixty. Particular emphasis on anti-aircraft gunnery control. Still required to dress for dinner in the wardroom. As part of the anti invasion preparations was sent with a party of fifty men to mount old six-inch naval guns at several waterfront locations in southern England. Poured concrete, requisitioned civilian houses. Prepared twenty two gun sites. Participated at 4:00 A.M. in the disarming of French naval vessels in British ports. Most French seamen elected to return to France. Completed the course in Sept. 1940 and returned to Canada. (45:00) Appointed to H.M.C.S. Restigouche (destroyer). Describes officers, watchkeeping, communications department. Convoy duty. Explains codes and ciphers and how used. Clyde escort force, Jan. 1941. Lieutenant, March 1941. Operations south of Iceland. Met H.M.S. Prince of Wales (battleship). Carried an American film crew to the meeting of Churchill and Roosevelt at Placentia Bay, Nfld. Appointed first lieutenant at the signal school at Saint-Hyacinthe, Que. (50:00) (Reel 2, Side 1) Relations with the civilian population at Saint-Hyacinthe. Long signals course in England at H.M.S. Mercury, the Royal Navy (R.N.) signal school. Upon completion was appointed to H.M.S. Laforey (destroyer) in the Mediterranean, operating from Bone, Algeria. (45:00) They were required to interrupt German seaborne supplies to North Africa. Sank German E-boat. Often under air attack. Shortage of spare parts resulted in much scavenging of damaged ships. First engagement in Jan. 1943. Partially as protection against air attack, many operations carried out in early morning darkness, usually from 2:00 A.M. Discusses Canadians serving in that theatre. Canadian corvettes did so for a time, but lacked adequate anti-aircraft protection. Air Force had considerable problem in supplying sufficient air cover. For easier recognition by friendly aircraft the upper surface of the ship was eventually painted with red lead. Experiences off Tunis. Capture of Pantelleria. Preparations for the invasion of Sicily, 1943. Landing craft, approaches, artillery support of the landing. Invasion of Italy, sinking of an Italian submarine, Salerno where the ship was hit by enemy artillery. First encounter with German wireless controlled glider bombs. Repairs at Malta. Bombed, again returned to Malta. Anecdotes, Christmas, 1943. Sardinia, Corsica. Supported Anzio landing which went well despite several ships being sunk. Remarks on the crew of the Laforey. Sent back to Canada and en route learned that the Laforey had been sunk with heavy loss of life. Appointed to the signal school at Saint-Hyacinthe as an instructor. (48:00) (Reel 3, Side 1) In Apr. 1944 was second-in-command of the wireless section of the school. Describes the various branches of the school: wireless, visual, radar, merchant navy signals, technical training. Appointed to command the wireless section. Began to have problems with the French-speaking population, but through co-operation with the civilian authorities an ugly situation was averted. Attended the United States Navy signal school at Annapolis. Began to introduce American signal procedures to Canadians in preparation for the war in the Pacific. Objected to the requirement that Canadian servicemen had to volunteer specifically for the Pacific theatre. Married in March 1945. At the end of the war was promoted to lieutenant-commander and appointed signal officer to the flag officer, Pacific Coast. By the summer of 1946 there were few ships in commission. Anecdotes of Rear-Admiral Victor Brodeur whom he admired. Common Canadian/British/American signal doctrine began to emerge. Posted to Ottawa, then to the operational research branch of the U.S. Navy. In Jan. 1947 appointed to the Joint Staff in Washington, D.C. where standardization of equipment and methods were under study. Appointed to command H.M.C.S. Crescent (destroyer), excellent crew, cruise to the Caribbean for exercises. (45:00) Uncrowded Hawaii in 1948. For the first time Canadians placed a wreath at the monument to Capt. Cook. Posted to Ottawa, then the R.N. staff course at Greenwich (1949). Living conditions for civilians not very attractive. Signal Division at the Admiralty, promoted to commander, then to the Joint Services Staff College. Appointed staff officer to R.-Adm. E.R.(Rollo) Mainguy aboard H.M.C.S. Magnificent (light fleet carrier). Cruise to Europe, a long social event. Commands communication school. Director of Naval Communications in Ottawa, 1952-1953, an interesting period. New ships and equipment. Admired Brooke Claxton, the Minister. First exposure to the political process. (45:00) (Reel 3, Side 2) Appointed to command H.M.C.S. Haida (destroyer) and to sail for Korea as senior officer, destroyers (1953). Carried a number of specialist officers and extra crew. Ship was beginning to show her age and carried a mixture of British, Canadian, and American equipment which was later to cause problems. Worked-up ship with heavy emphasis on gunnery and communications. Voyage from Halifax, Christmas in Mexico, training at Pearl Harbor. Took southerly course across the Pacific due to the need to refuel frequently. Korean armistice in effect, but required to undertake seventeen-day patrols off the Korean coast. Difficulty in deciding the loyalties of the Korean coastal traffic. Based in Sasebo, Japan the Canadian ships had to be maintained in operational readiness. In a surprisingly simple, effective, and economical system the government directly provided ships' captains with money to pay for repairs and necessities. Very inexpensive refits were available at the efficient Japanese shipyards. High morale in the ship's company. Japanese conditions and culture. Hong Kong, 1954. Cleaned and painted ship with a Hong Kong female "junk" crew who insisted that they take the destroyer's garbage in payment! Canada Day in Tokyo. When relieved, the ship carried on around the world to Halifax, but Charles flew home to take command of Royal Roads Military College (R.R.M.C.). Far East comments, including carrying, under contract, of five Chinese laundrymen who were very useful and convenient. (45:00) (Reel 4, Side 1) Appointed to Royal Roads for three years. Impressions, staff, civilian academics (among whom he felt that bickering was surprisingly commonplace!) Responsible to the Personnel Directorate in Ottawa. Royal Roads cadets entered with a nominal senior matriculation, but in reality with a large mix of qualifications -- and from all walks of social life. Of new cadets about eighty percent had not made up their minds about a career, about five percent attended exclusively for a degree, and fifteen percent had decided to join one of the services. Some cadets left for medical reasons, some were homesick, and others lacked officer-like qualities or suitable academic results. Found it very difficult to let go a cadet who wanted to stay. Sports activities applied to all. Modest military instruction with the exception of parade ground drill. Military training took place for two months in the summer. Commandant's parade on Sunday followed by compulsory church parade. As Commandant, invited six or eight cadets to dinner every week with an equal number of young ladies from Victoria. Entertained the staff. Many social engagements in Victoria. This left few free nights for Capt. and Mrs. Charles. Some details of the military college system and advisory board. Naval reserve cadets attended the college in the summer. At that time the services experienced a problem in retaining sufficient officers and consideration had to be given to lowering academic requirements. Spent considerable time on public relations. Red tunics reintroduced in 1956, regulations somewhat relaxed. Some effort was made to introduce cadets into the social graces. The demise of the calling card. Appointed Director of Plans and Naval Operations. Returning to Royal Roads, he offers the opinion that civilian acceptance of cadets somewhat less as a tri-service college than it had been as a naval college. (47:00) (Reel 4, Side 2) In Ottawa, Aug. 1957, concerned with long-range planning as well as day-to-day operations, preparation of naval estimates. These were often very difficult: obvious when too much was being spent on services and administration rather than hardware. Ship requirements were set at two new ones per year which was deemed necessary for Canada's NATO commitment. The Department of External Affairs had a real influence on these deliberations. Naval air and the Air Force required close co operation, with the result that airmen became deputy commanders on both coasts. Had considerable difficulty manning our forty-two-ship fleet. Became necessary to replace the frigates and thus began the planning for the new general purpose frigates designed to carry missiles. A change in the office of Chief of Naval Staff held up the program and a change in government caused cancellation. Bought British O class submarines. Comments on the beginning of the Canadian Coast Guard. (45:00) This Department of Transport branch had been a patronage organization and required some changes. Under early integration the medical and chaplain services were brought under a single directorate. Refers to Pearkes, Harkness, and Lambert as ministers of national defence. Further introduction to politics. Comments on V.-Adm. Raynor as Chief of Naval Staff. Appointed to command Second Escort Squadron of seven ships and also Captain of H.M.C.S. Assiniboine II (destroyer escort). For the first time directed a ship from an operations room. Joined the Americans in a hunter/killer group consisting of an aircraft carrier and eight destroyers. Carried Lt.-Gov. G.R. Pearkes on a tour of remote Indian villages, some quite impressive. (45:00) (Reel 5, Side 1) Commodore, Naden Barracks. Personnel, administration, discipline and training of the Esquimalt Port Division (about 5800 men). Attrition was a problem and reengagements low in number. Extended seatime caused personal difficulties, especially in the engineer trades. Value of sail training. Maritime Museum moved to Bastion Square, Victoria, Attended the National Defence College (N.D.C.); integration and unification a great puzzle to many students. Trip to Africa very educational, then on to Europe. Feels that the N.D.C. is a valuable institution offering complete freedom of opinion to both staff and students. Posted to Ottawa as Assistant Chief of Air and Naval Warfare. After about one month in this new position integration was proclaimed in naval headquarters and thus became Director-General of Force Development where, with the staff, planned for the integrated forces and for new equipment. Refits of ships, new helicopters, aircraft, and tanks were presented to the Minister and to the parliamentary defence committee. Certain officers ordered to take early retirement. Much secrecy about unification. NATO analysis group examined Canada's contribution. NORAD commitment bothered the Air Force: Bomarc and fighter aircraft (CF-5), the latter as a tactical ground support aircraft did not fulfill any already in-place Air Force roles.(45:00) (Reel 5, Side 2) Difficult to obtain approval for long-term programs. The government thought in terms of a year or two. A problem in obtaining equipment for all roles: NATO, NORAD, and peacekeeping. Discusses unification, parliamentary defence committee. When a gloomy picture was to be presented by Rear-Admiral W.M.Landymore he was ordered by the Minister to present a more attractive picture of the state of the Navy. Political and public support for the armed forces was not great, thus senior officers could be removed fairly easily. Rear-Admiral J.C. O'Brien was offered the Atlantic Command and Charles, the Pacific. Remembers that there were fears that the Navy might disappear and the influence of Navy supporters was small. Believes that the Minister, Paul Hellyer sincerely felt that the support services required reorganization. Opposition to his ideas may have hardened the Minister's stance to a point of no return. Economies could have been achieved solely with integration. Explains the position of the Commander, British Columbia area. Training relied heavily on American co-operation. In 1967, Expo year, very many V.I.P. visitors. Had to hire Cadillacs from funeral homes to provide adequate transportation. First visit to Canada by a Japanese training squadron. Green uniforms brought out in 1968 on a trial basis: they were not very practical as they were hot to wear and wrinkled badly. The year 1969 was a bad one: Bonaventure scandal, reduction of forces personnel, constant economies. (45:00) (Reel 6, Side 1) Cancelled the naval rum ration, bars established for petty officers and beer ration provided for the men. Heavy social schedule: dinner parties twice a week, all officers and wives were entertained. Did not receive an entertainment allowance except for foreign visitors. Appointed Deputy Chief of Plans in Ottawa which required a certain liaison with the Department of External Affairs. Law of the Sea Conference. Armed forces brought into fisheries and maritime surveillance which required extra funding. Reduction of NATO commitment probably politically acceptable, but militarily, not so. Much discussion with NATO partners regarding standardization. Nuclear weapons always contentious; Canadian defence policy quite adequate, but financially always short of requirements. The Treasury Board felt that the defence of Canada was the first priority and, as a result, there was theoretically insufficient funding for peacekeeping. Difficult to understand the defence role, blown by the winds of political change, day-to-day.. The "FLQ" (Front de Liberation du Quebec) crisis showed the value of the armed forces. The Canadian hydrofoil Bras d'Or. The concept of numbers of small ships was a good one, but the weapons and detection system that would fit into a small ship posed a major problem. Final product was excellent, but helicopters could perform the same task as long as a platform was provided for them. Politics again dictated increased responsibilities for the armed forces, but with reduced financing. Travelled to Sweden, Australia, and the United States to examine new equipment. Appointed Chief of Maritime Operations. Francophone proportion of the Canadian armed forces set at twenty-eight percent. This caused problems with promotion of senior officers. Many felt that the merit system was being set aside for political reasons. Some francophone officers agreed that this was a danger. Despite English being the operational language, the requirement for French language translation grew. Instruction in both languages was a troublesome fact. Mentions Vietnam truce observers. Retired Sept. 1973. (40:00)
Interviewer: Thackray, William S.
An interview/narrative of John A Charles's experiences during World War II and the Korean War. Rear-Admiral Charles, C.M.M. served with the Royal Canadian Navy. Interview took place on June 2, 19, 26, July 3, 17, August 7, 14, 21, 27 and September 4, 1980.
Interviewee: Charles, John A., b. 1919
Rank: Rear Admiral. Medals and Honours: Commander of the Order of Military Merit; Mentioned in Despatches
- In Collection:
- 22 sound recordings (MP3)
- 48.4359, -123.35155
- 52.16045, -0.70312
- Six original sound tape reels (ca. 960 min.) : 1 7/8 ips, 2 track, mono. ; 11 sound cassette copies : standard, mono. in Special Collections.
- Canadian Military Oral History Collection
- CJA_206
- Special Collections Finding Aid: https://uvic2.coppul.archivematica.org/reginald-herbert-roy-fonds
- August 24, 2010
- Digital sound recording in .wav format at 16 bits and 44 kHz. In .mp3 format at 56 kbps and 24 kHz. Digitized by JF, technical and cataloguing metadata provided by JF and JP. Transferred from audio reel to audio cassette between 1987-1997. Interview migrated to digital format for UVic Special Collections in 2010. Migration metadata by KD and MT.
- Rights
- This interview has been posted with the understanding that it may be used for research purposes only. Should the interviewee or their heirs have any objections to this interview being accessible on the Internet, it will be removed promptly. Contact UVic Special Collections for permission if using for other than research purposes: speccoll@uvic.ca
- DOI
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