George Love interview

[Judith Windle interviewing George Love in 1978]

[00:02] George Love: ... farm, and I, I was the only male...

Judith Windle: I see...

GL: ...I was the senior male, in fact the only one, finally, handling a herd- handling a herd of dairy cows.
Which meant morning and night duty, no matter what.

JW: So you really found [inaudible] everything [inaudible] because the normal school year was packed.

GL: Well, it was something that was added to whatever everybody else was doing, and there was the time,
the high point of it was when I went to sleep in Dr. MacLaurin's lecture. And he never as much as mentioned
the fact, he only paused long enough that the silence of the room woke me up. But I've held that to his...
everlasting credit, because the rest of his staff were like that too. Including Denton, and Denton was a bit
rough at times, well, if you're a man's man, that's to be expected and not resented either.

JW: He was pretty fair to you [inaudible].

GL: I thought so. So that... the attitude of students was something. If it was atmosphere you're looking for,
probably the biggest change has taken place in that... sphere. The attitude of the pupils towards others who
may not be as well off as themselves. As a matter of fact for that book, just as an example, you had to bring
them both with you. I haven't got one. I couldn't afford one.

JW: How much were they?

GL: 35 cents I think, I'm not sure, I couldn't tell you.

JW: Really? I didn't realize the annuals were for sale, I thought maybe they were given out to the students.

GL: No, we had to pay, though it was a nominal sum, mind you, I don't think they made any profit on it,
but... I think it was all... Oh, I don't even, 75, 50 cents or something. Of course, that was that was real
money. Technical aids, of course, were entirely lacking such things as overhead projectors and many
electronic devices were no part of our stock at all. We didn't have that advantage but out of that situation
rose an advantage. I think that the resourcefulness of the teacher in providing visual aids... the skillful use of
the blackboard. Now here I sound like fifty or sixty years ago, which is correct, that's what it is. That it
brought out a resourcefulness of the teacher that might not be supplied. But the weakness of any pre...
fabricated device, such as an overhead projector just to name one, means that you've got to have a lot of
preparation in advance. Furthermore, you're supplying them with pictorial material sometimes that's
irrelevant to what it is that you're trying to teach, because these plates are prepared. It's something like
pulling down a map of Canada in front of a big class. And the, the map is almost useless because it supplies
and is loaded with information that's quite irrelevant to what you're trying to do. But make that map of your
own chalk and your own stuff, and put on it what you want to emphasize and leave out everything else.
You've got yourself... visually number one. The blackboard. Skillfully used. Now, I admit not all people are
skillful along artistic lines, but those who are are learned to use a blackboard for its proper use. They'd get a
visual aid that it has been overlooked by most people, most of the time.

JW: I was speaking to one woman and she mentioned this... course that you took in normal school in how to
write on the blackboard and the care of a blackboard. And she was saying that the simple things like which
proper chalk to use made a world of difference. But she's found that since she's been substituting teaching
the- after the normal school students have been teaching, or, since normal school finished and more
education students come in, they've lost these simple little basics and it's made a big difference because you
ruin a blackboard by using the wrong chalk.

GL: Yes, or a certain people seated on a certain part of the classroom looking at that board can get nothing
but a light reflection from the windows, and that's a situation. Or the teacher himself walking over to the



window and leaning his elbows on the window edge and talking. Not realizing that the students looking at
him are looking into a... battery of light. And that's very very tiring on the student, for one thing it makes
them restive. And it's a real hardship if you have to look at a person who is framed as a silhouette more than
anything else. He should, he should stay away from the windows.

JW: You were taught these basics when you were at the normal school?

[04:50] GL: You bet we were. There was nothing academic about it, in fact, it's detractors would have called
it basketweaving, and you've perhaps heard the phrase. But if you are going to weave baskets then you
better learn how! And... it's not just because of the glow of... 50 or 60 years having gone by, or however
many it is since 1925. It's not only because of that, because I would have said that at the time. But time has
proved it. What we got at the normal school was practical, down to earth, it was usable right from the start.
Now another feature that... it didn't increase our joy of living. Was... hope you can find some tape out of
this, I hate these smaller pauses. Was the individual criticism that you got, the analysis and criticism of every
lesson. I don't know whether that applies to 50 years ago more than now or not. I could never see very
much point in taking a raw student teacher and putting them in the class. Then walking away and leaving.
He's not going to learn too much that way, it sounds just dandy but it doesn't work. He's got to know what
he's trying to do, he's got to know what to expect of his pupils and so on. But these individual criticisms that
we got, of course as a result of a report from the... from the... residing teacher, the regular teacher. Then
sometimes one of the staff of the normal school would be there as well. And by the time you're through with
hashing over that lesson you sometimes feel as if you were being dragged in by the cat or something.

JW: You didn't have the same instructor come and criticize you each time, it was a different... teacher-

GL: Well it might be a different one, and it might not be very regular. Because they couldn't get around. It
was a student body of 230 or so people in that year, and that was quite a bit to, to cover. But we were all
covered, I think, at least by one or two interviews- inspections, you could call them.

JW: Did you find anyone teacher was easier or harder on you than the other?

GL: Yes, now, the man that we feared most who had the most influence for or against us would be
MacLaurin. There's where he gave you credit for everything that was good, and some of the dumbest darn
things that I did. He would omit them, but point out what was good. He could find something good to say
about it, and then he would analyze them and say the bad things too. But you felt that he was not out there
to get you, in fact he was there to make you. I'm fairly grateful to MacLaurin, particularly because that to a
greater or lesser extent was true of his whole staff. They were like that. They would find something good
about you even if you didn't know it was there yourself. And they would tell you what was wrong in no
uncertain terms, but that's a fair deal. In fact, you'll never make any progress unless you do. In succeeding
years there was one, who will be nameless, but his greatest boast was that he never gave any adverse
criticism. He built on success. There's a cliche that gained a lot of ground, unjustifiably. You're- if you don't
admit your mistakes, you're going to keep on making them! Even if it's not the most popular... thing to say
at the time. Say, how am I doing?

JW: [JW laughs] You're doing well. I looked at your annual last night, your 24-25 annual, and I noticed that
you were a musician. You were in the orchestra? That was the one year that they got their own orchestra
together.

GL: I wasn't playing the harp, as that points out. Furthermore, they don't predict that that would happen to
me ever, and it didn't.

JW: How did this come about? You were all interested in something?

GL: We had a chap, his name was Bud Tweedale. I think his first name was Abott, Abbott Tweedale. We
called him Bud, because that's the name he gave himself. And he was a very much better than average
violinist. He came from... Andrew B, I'm pretty sure that before he came from, to attend normal school. He
brought his violin and a fist of music with him. He found a few other people who might be interested in an
orchestra. Ordered up some music, I'm not sure where he got his funds, maybe out of his own pocket, I'm



not sure. But we, we played through and performed quite a number of concerts. In fact, we...

JW: How many were there?

[09:48] GL: ... [inaudible] all evening. Usually there were five. The pianist was a most gifted chap, Berner
Rile, from Nanaimo. Who could play anything on the piano at sight. He didn't need to even have seen music
before to be able to play it accurately and faultlessly just, just on sight. But that picture shows that same
Berner Rile playing the fiddle to the tune of putting it on a sawhorse and sawing his way through it with a
buck saw. He did that to oblige the orchestra because when we got another pianist and lost a violin he came
along and was able to fill in as a violinist as well, with practically nothing but the fact that he knew where the
notes were. He could hit them. His playing was rough and ready, it's true, but so it was with myself and
others. But Tweedale, the conductor, was smooth. He was good. And we had ourselves a practice about
once a week. We put on... either partial evenings or partial concerts, and one or two occasions we put on a
whole program. So that it was something that was a regular affair. It was a part of the training that, while of
course I had been a self-taught violinist myself from the age of about four, and had been given a violin by
my father. My father was killed in an accident, and he was a good violinist and... well, my mother said "you
have to take over as violinist as well". I'm glad I did... [GL laughs] with horrible effects. But I was on that
orchestra and of course... I had to memorize the parts because I couldn't read music at that time, but by
golly I soon learned. Because it was an- it was an- a new experience for me. And it's an experience that I've
never let slip.

JW: Did you have a name for your group?

GL: No, no, the orchestra got very little... [inaudible] is the word, I suppose. Notoriety, fame, call it anything
you like, compared to an athletic team. These are the ones that always [inaudible] the public eye. It must be
that athletics are more attractive to most people, but I got all the athletics I needed before and after the
day's work at the Normal School by going after a herd of cows, milking them, and then in the evening doing
the same again. So that I did not lack athletic attainment, as far as that goes. But I had no time for playing
on, say, a rugby team.

JW: [inaudible crosstalk]

GL: I played a little tennis but not much in the way because my time was taken up on [inaudible].

JW: I, I found there were... more musical students that year than any other [inaudible].

GL: It might be that having one orchestra at a time, that that was enough and they didn't want anymore
with us as a sample. But we did play things that I've enjoyed ever since. I think for the last six years I've
been playing in a concert orchestra myself now, and it's it partly those first affections, those shadowy
recollections are yet the fountain light of all our being. That's where it started. And uh...

JW: You-

GL: ... humble as the effort was, it began there.

JW: There were morning assemblies, do you remember the morning assemblies? Did you have to put on...
class plays or skits or talks?

GL: Well that part of it was Friday afternoon to us, but a very enjoyable part. We would take one lecture
after in the lunch hour, and then for the rest of the afternoon -perhaps a couple of hours- would be some
kind of concert, usually put on, as you say, by a group, a class. And sometimes we mixed it up a bit to have
men and women on the stage at the same time, because then there was one class of men. 36 men, I think it
was. And... four or five classes of girls. I'm not sure this book would show it anyway. But we saw everything
on that stage, and some of the students were older than others, you see. And one in particular have been a
singer in England and he had a, a workman's like knowledge of opera. And we put on the odd opera. I
shouldn't say we, because I didn't feature in that. I'm not an actor. I'm not a singer either, for that matter.



JW: What did you do in the morning assemblies?

GL: The morning assemblies... were very formal. The staff filed in in a methodical sequence. And took the
same seats every day, and knew exactly what they were going to do. The Lord's Prayer was sung, played,
and it was... to music... composed... dedicated to... the [inaudible] MacLaurin.

[14:55] GL: It was a... musical interpretation of The Lord's Prayer that I had never heard any other place,
and I've never heard it since. But the Normal School, every morning... performed The Lord's Prayer as
dedicated to Dr. [inaudible] MacLaurin. He wasn't doctor then, by the way, he was Mr. MacLaurin. And...
then each of the staff would, would take a turn at reading something of his own choice. Or a [recitation?]
perhaps, for one of the faculty, but it usually it was something read something of a... an elevating nature. Or
sometimes something very humorous and funny. Denton surprised them all by giving something religious.
Which was is the last [inaudible] place that you might have looked for something religious, well... I
remember it's something to do with buying a packet of seeds, you tossed the... [inaudible] and dime across
the counter. And he tosses you a packet of seeds and you walk out with a packet of divinity in your pocket,
it was a very moving little poem. I don't know where he got it. Well... I couldn't pick out any one other, but
they all took their turn. C.B. Wood, whose death was just announced not long ago, was a young member of
the staff, and he was the latest addition to their staff apparently. He too had the same philosophy that he
could take your lesson, even if it was a bit of a dud, and just reshuffle it a bit so that it would be something
from which you would improve your technique. But the morning assemblies, that's what you asked me,
were, I think I'm entitled to say they were... inspiring. I think that. Because there was there was as much
variety of what the staff did as there was a variety among the staff themselves, and there was a great
variety among the staff. MacLaurin had his finger on the pulse of everything at all times, and spent a great
deal of his time actually teaching. I'm sure he taught individual classes easily as much as any of his staff.
And there's other too-

JW: What did he teach you?GL: Pardon?JW: What did he teach you? Do you remember?

GL: In the individual staff level he taught... arithmetic, that's how to teach arithmetic. For instance, if you
wanted to teach the area of a circle or something of that nature... he would give you exact things as to do,
this is what you do. This, that and the other thing, it was as definite as that. But out of that comes
something which... gives the student a little bit of confidence. What else did he teach besides the general
purpose things? Well, to the whole auditorium and the whole assembly he taught class management. That
was [inaudible] then. It would be... the general technique that underlies all teaching. And whether you're
teaching geography or arithmetic or... I wouldn't say physical ed, because that is physical. But in teaching...
class management he met up with most of the problems that we said, teaching at all times and at all levels
and in all places. That was one of his subjects, and only one of them too. To the assembly he taught that,
class management. Is there a name for it now? I'm sure that name has disappeared, you've probably never
heard of it. That's why I defined it.

JW: I don't know what we'd call it now.

GL: Classroom management, no, class management, that would be it. But if you, for the first few years of
your teaching if you had kept a close... watch on your class management notes, you would find the answer
to an awful lot of what would be serious problems otherwise. So MacLaurin handled that. He handled the
whole thing for the whole school.

JW: Because he taught you that... most everybody was very young and would be going out to country
schools where some of your pupils would be almost as old as you.

GL: That, that transpired in my own case as well as others. Yes, I had pupils who were- in fact the inspector
walked in and said, [GL laughing] "which is the teacher?", because I had a boy there who was taller than I
was. And I was the whole age of 18. And... well, I suppose our... beginning teachers were younger than
they are the present time, because they weren't as- by and large, they weren't as well educated. They- I had
no college at all at that level, and all the college I got has been my evening classes, summer classes, and so
on ever since. But I've never been to college in the accepted sense of the word in my life.



[20:02] JW: You were just high school, and then straight into normal school, yes?

GL: Yes, I took two high school graduations one aimed at the university... and one aimed at the normal
school, so that I could have been admitted to either. But that was all in the same year, that I picked that up
in the summer time. And then it's been a matter of... just... summer courses. Certainly you, you, you
couldn't tell me in these early days of my teaching "resign your job and go back to college for a year and
then resume it". You couldn't do that. If you did resign your job you were out, and when you came back the
next year with an improved certificate perhaps, but no job. And a whole battery of other students from all
ready to roll off the assembly line too.

JW: The year that you graduated from normal school were jobs hard to come by?

GL: I'd say they would be very scarce, it would have made marvelous politics today to have a situation like
that, look at the unemployment. So many teachers graduated, 230 [inaudible] from Victoria, about twice that
number from the Vancouver Normal School. And as far as we know, no available jobs. Because compulsory
retirement wasn't in then, and people who couldn't afford retirement would go to the age of 80 or so, still
teaching. And some of them were very good too, and some of them were... awful. Because of their age. If
were of course to teach up to the age of 80, I would be as bad as anyone of them, certainly, and probably
worse.

JW: How did you find your job?

GL: I wrote so many applications that I don't know myself how many it was. I never got an answer to a
single one of them. So, I thought there's only one... channel open, I'll go down to the Department of
Education myself and see... if there's anybody there who, to whom I can... state my case at all because my
case was the same as nearly everybody else's had graduated. And... the... registrar of teachers... asked me
one question, right abruptly at the beginning of our interview. I was put in contact with him. And he says,
"are you ready to go if a call comes in?" And I said "Yes, yes I am. Tell you right now, I will, I'll take
whatever job comes up if I'm qualified to take it", that goes without saying. You wouldn't want any
unqualified people. So it was only a couple of days later that the phone rang. It might have been that this
registrar knew of such a place that was coming up. The term had already been going three weeks, but a
school hadn't been able to open or get itself together by that time, so... so as soon as this call came in, I
was ready to jump, and I went to central British Columbia. [inaudible] But that's where I started in 1925, on
about the 23rd or the 22nd of September, it was by that time.

JW: Was the man that you saw Mr. Watson?

GL: Yes. Yes, it was. And he was most helpful too, for that matter. But there was one thing that the
department, and it was department policy, didn't help me at all. I explained to him that this is to be a new
school. That's what- he had already told me that. Never been one there before, and it was in a mining camp.
I said, "could I please make out a list of books that I'm sure to need right away". And he said, "no you've
got to go up there and see how many pupils you've got and fill in the right forms and send them down." So
when I did start off, of course this is getting away from normal school now, but when I did start off I- the
pupils had no textbooks. There were two grocery stores in the camp, but none of them sold stationary which
is suitable for the use in school. So there was a bit of a tango there, but we started out somehow and when
you're young... [inaudible] to tell you this, you'll try anything because you don't know what you can do and
what you can't. So you try everything. [inaudible] very very happy here.

JW: While at the Normal School, in your classes, you had to prepare everything yourself. Did you find that
helpful when you took it on? You had something to use?

GL: Again, if it demands resourcefulness on the part of the teacher anything is good. It can be turned to
good, not a good thing in itself. I don't recommend cheating the teachers out of the use of their textbooks,
or any other books or supplies for that matter. But if they can get in there and make a fist out of it
somehow. They get all kinds of hell from the most unexpected directions. But you've got to show that your
own effort is in the right place.



[25:07] JW: When you were at the Normal School did you ever have home economics class- domestic
science? Learn the basics, how to fend for yourself.

GL: I think the girls took something like that while they're there. I can't answer you though because...

JW: Some years...

GL: I don't recall if there was anything to do with home economics for men.

JW: Some years the men did take a basic cooking course, and other years they didn't.

JW: See, well that covers, of course a long period of time, but... I wouldn't say there wasn't. I don't know
what the girls did when the boys got together for physical training, there might have been... domestic
science classes, or something. I couldn't say. Too long ago, or maybe I didn't even know at the time.

JW: You didn't have any classes with the women, did you?

GL: Excepting these assemblies such as... class management. Well, I've been... very unmethodical about this
whole thing. [JW laughs]

JW: Well there's one other question: in your year, did you have the little vegetable gardens that everybody
had to tend to?

GL: No.

JW: No? Some years they had little garden plots that everybody had to tend to.

GL: I think that was an offshoot of World War I. I was in elementary school myself as a pupil, and during
that time... around the, during and after World War I... schools did have little plots of gardens. Well, it was
more to keep their morale up in wartime than anything else. I doubt that it was very much value, what we
did, excepting that we had the experience. City children, for instance, would have had no experience of
gardening at all. But I was out in the country here with my dairy farm and so you could understand, any
little extra agriculture which arose from the school was a little bit superfluous to [establishment?].

JW: Did you have any contact at all with the gardeners or the janitor? Some people had mentioned that the
janitor seemed almost like a father figure to some of them because he was someone they could talk to. They
didn't look up to him like the... teachers, who were scary.

GL: I've known a good many janitors in several schools in some succeeding years... to whom that could
apply. I don't recall particularly any janitors at the Normal School. Though, mind you, it might have been
what they were most notable people and I've simply forgotten all about them by this time. But... it would be
true of a good many schools that I've been in since, that the janitor held almost a unique position...
ombudsman, you might have called him. Self- not exactly self-appointed but... appointed by the pupils. The
kind of guy that you can talk to. At the high school, for instance, if you lost your locker keys and you couldn't
find a prefect there was a janitor there who could always oblige you and would keep his mouth shut about
it.

JW: Were the rose gardens... down the front of the building when you were there? By the tennis courts?

GL: I remember playing tennis on the tennis courts the few times that I had a chance to play any games...
but I don't remember any... gardening work going on outdoors. In succeeding years, of course, the thing
kept on changing and once in a while I would visit for this or that reason. And I would notice that the
gardening had been changed or the tennis courts had been... I think they've disappeared have they not?

JW: [inaudible response]

GL: From the front of the...



JW: It's gone now.

GL: [inaudible] Normal School itself, those tennis courts are gone.

JW: Did you have a lunchroom... when you were there? Was there a lunchroom where you could eat?

GL: I don't think so. I'm not sure where- of course we ate our lunches outside as often as possible, but... if it
was a matter of eating indoors, I can't recall just what we did by way of lunches. Perhaps every individual
went to his own classroom, his home classroom. I, I... simply couldn't say. I don't remember... See, I've
been retired ten years as well as teaching 43. The entire [inaudible] and it's here in retirement, so... I don't
know just how much of this is accurate or not.

JW: Do any of the other instructors stand out in your mind?

GL: To say "stand out" would be to say that somewhere better than others, they must have been. I was
particularly impressed by Freeman.

[29:56] GL: Mr. Freeman was a man of... Oh, he was getting up in years, let's say. He was calm. Never in
the accusative case. He didn't make people's lives miserable at any time, even if he could have. But he was a
good teacher, he gave, again, just like all the others he gave us something that we could really start off
with. And it was one of the most difficult of all subjects, pedagogically speaking.

[Audio stops]

GL: [Audio continues] After MacLaurin, I'd say Freeman. And... it was more because of his kindly attitude
and, against the backdrop of very very rigid... control. There was no doubt about it. MacLaurin was like a, an
army general. He was how we think of army generals, I don't know any personally.

JW: Mr. Freeman would be his opposite, would he?

GL: He would be... just a good mix in with that. Just as MacLaurin was an ultra-conservative in many ways,
at least that's the image he projected. Denton... a man's man, certainly more a man of the world than
MacLaurin. It was a good balance all the way through, whether it was done accidentally or on purpose, I
would never know. But again, Freeman had... I think a rather... deep religious faith. I gathered that more
from drinking it in through the skin than from any of- anything that he specifically said. But I, I think that
that would turn out to be so. The youngest man on the staff was Wood. The youngest person on the staff
was Wood, and he was young and experienced too, but he had that same dedication about it. That same
sense of fairness. That really made him outstanding in a way, excepting... I couldn't exactly by definition say
that all the staff were outstanding, but that's about the way I felt all the, then. And certainly all the more so
since, in the view of a lot of experience.

JW: There were model schools up there, did you ever get a chance to teach in them, or did you just
observe?

GL: Some of the students taught in them. I didn't personally, and I never observed in them either, for that
matter, in the model school. But on one occasion- hmmm... was it? Yes, on one occasion... I don't suppose it
was a whole class of elementary school pupils, but a group of them were brought in and some of our own
students would teach object lessons to them. I remember Tommy Horne, for instance, I don't know if you
know that name or not. But Tommy Horne acted as their teacher, and the whole thing was set up on the
stage and the rest of us filled the auditorium and watched him teach them... something. I'm not sure what
though. And yes, there was that kind of [inaudible]. I never taught in the normal- in the model school
myself.

JW: Did you find that the library at the Normal School was very helpful? I remember it was quite a small little
library.



GL: I remember the little... [inaudible] it was small enough. The use I made of it most was... scanning, and
sometimes reading, books as outlined by MacLaurin as class management. I can't say that I used it as a
source of reference material for teaching because it just didn't seem to have enough of that. Of course,
there were 230 pupils, all students, all trying to make use of that same stuff so that... no as far as the need
to... background and so on for teaching. I don't think... there was very much to it. Maybe I'm unfair to them,
maybe I didn't... make use of what was there in the way that I should. But that was my impression anyway.

JW: Was Ms. Riddell your music teacher there? Ms. Riddell, was she the music instructor?

GL: Yes, yes. Ms. Riddell handled... all primary teaching, of course, it's... it's a thing that was not, men were
not eligible to teach in primary grades. But we did, because as MacLaurin pointed out you're going to be
principals perhaps, and you should have some knowledge of what goes on in a primary school. So, we took
the same lectures from Ms. Ridell, I suppose, as she gave to all the girl teachers. And she taught music to all
of the classes, and she was a whiz at teaching music. I wasn't able to assess her... teaching and her advice
on other subjects in the primary grades.

JW: Did you have to audition for her, to find what kind of voice you had?

[35:03] GL: Yes, oh yes, and she taught even the most un-musical people to read off the... modulator, the
tonic sol-fa. As a result of which, I had an experience that I didn't really appreciate at the time but... well,
I've always tinkered away at music as you can imagine, myself, but I was supposed to teach singing to a
grade five. in the Boy's Central School. I unrolled this... tonic sol-fa business, and pointed out individual
notes and they would sing "do, we, re, da dum di dum..." according to that. And I said, "I know lets this half
of the classroom watch just this hand. This point." And I'll have another ruler in this and we'd... go on two.
"Ready, go!" We played and sang part songs and harmony, and that class was able to follow what I was
doing when I was giving them two parts at once. All that I did was, it was as simple as playing a two note
harmony on the piano. There was nothing to that at all. [inaudible] the pupils had no experience at it. The
teacher thought it was a marvelous performance on my part, and I did nothing to try and disillusion her [GL
laughs] either. But the part that was marvelous was... the pupils themselves, they must have been awfully
well taught because I've never had a class since that could do that. I've had a grade eight... [inaudible] and
it was unique in its way, that I could take a two part song, but one part at a time, and this class will be this.
And they could follow a tune that was unfamiliar to them. And then the other half... sings the waltz,
Beautiful Ohio, for instance while the girls would be singing... the treble parts, and the boys would be
singing the... [inaudible]. And after a whirl through each then, in the space of about five minutes, they were
singing a part song, a harmony, a waltz in harmony. But apart from that I've never had a class that, or I've
never found a class in a school, because I taught a lot of music even when I was principal. But I've never
found a class that could follow a two-part harmony... on a piece of music, that was [inaudible]. So this...
teacher that was in charge of the class gave me a marvelous criticism for something- she gave credit where
it was not due at all, but I hope she never discovered her mistake.

JW: Did you have any social life at the normal school? You played in the orchestra at their gatherings.

GL: That's where, maybe, my only criticism so far has been of... the attitude of fellow students. It wasn't
their fault, but it was the [inaudible] of the day. I wasn't much of a part of what was going on. I didn't- I
wasn't able to avail myself of any class parties or something because I was 10 miles out of town on a dairy
farm, and they were 10 miles away in the city and... in these days students were not tolerant of other
students who had jobs or worked. Or who couldn't afford that manual. Or... build up on that if you like. So
that I can't say much about the social life of the school because I was no part of it.

JW: There must have been groups of friends then, within the normal school, were there?

GL: I would judge so, but remember they came from all over the province. The Vancouver Normal School
took in mostly Vancouver people. But these people from... Victoria, at the Normal School and at Victoria they
were from all- Bud, Abott, the violinist was from Enderby in the Northern Okanagan. Vernon Ryle, the
pianist, was from Nanaimo. So these people had never met before, and it's pretty hard to say... I got on very
well with one of the older men. He was one of the... He was a war veteran, World War I... in the Royal
Flying Corps. He came up to Canada as so many do- did after the war. And... his name was B.C. [inaudible].



I got along very well with him because of my experience outside of schools entirely. I suppose it could be
said I got along much better with older men than with boys, teenage boys, my own age. The teenagers
are... by nature, I hope you are not too far removed from the teens, [GL laughs] teens yourself. But their
views are... pretty definite.

[39:59] GL: For instance if a boy's supposed to wear long hair and doesn't do it, well he's a square. He could
be even socially ostracized, so that I don't think that pupil, their student prejudice, has changed very much.
But today... the prevailing thought is that if a boy, or a girl either, for that matter, could hold down a job...
even get married and carry on with... professional training too. So much the better. We live in a much more
tolerant age today, although even then, as I say, concerning the long hair and the short and the [inaudible,
GL laughing].

JW: The normal school really did prepare you well, didn't it?

GL: Yes. Unqualified, yes.

[40:52] [END OF AUDIO]

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