Interview with Lorna Wanosts’a7 Williams in Gamla

The Mind of a Child
Face to Face Media Ltd.

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LORNA ... history that, um, our people have lived here for

thousands of years and, um, it’s the same, it’s the same

where I am, there’s just more evidence here of, of the past.

Where our past, even though there’s points where you can see

that there has been lots of time gone by but it’s, there at

home, it seems to be more always in the present because you

don’t see all of the layers quite so much.

GARY Where are the layers, where do you look for the layers in

Mount Currie?

LORNA The layers I guess come from the stories, the stories

from the, the old people and the songs that, um, you know,

that they sing about the different eras, the different

times.

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LORNA ... when I was, um, ah, the oldest thing that I learned

about was uh, that I remember, when I was about 12, I was

sitting with my aunt, just across the street from our house

and she was telling me about the, about creation and how the

people came to, to live in Mount Currie and she was telling

me about the, about the mountains and the, and how the, the

people ended up on this, on this rock, this rock cliff.

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And, um, and they stayed there for awhile and the water

started to recede and, um, ya, and they, and they found all

of these white, small white fish that was left and so that’s

what they ate, that was ... so that’s the oldest, I guess.

GARY And did you know where this mountain was?

LORNA Ya. Um, it was a place, um, at the end of Lilloet Lake

and, called, it’s now called Gunsight Mount-, Mountain.

And, because it has a split, it has a split in the rock.

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GARY There’s something about the houses with the roofs missing

and some of them caved in that makes me think about people

who are missing here and I don’t know whether they live,

always happily here or whether something took them away from

here. There’s been a lot of wars coming through here,

there’s gunfire in the background, um, it’s bringing also

for me, a bit of a feeling of loss and I’m wondering if you

can tell me, um, a difficult story that you told me once

about what happened with the small pox in your village. Is

that possible here? Is this the place for that?

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LORNA Mm ... I don’t know, I don’t feel like this is the

place for that story.

GARY Um ...

LORNA Cause even though here, there’s war and I know that

there have been, there have been many eras, like that have,

you know, groups of people have lived here. It’s a nice,

it’s a nice location and um, I guess over, over the years

there’s always change and, um, and sometimes there can be

anything that brings that change. It can be, um, caused by,

um, natural happenings to the earth, it can be conflict

between people. It can be conflict with, um, with the

spirit world or with, you know, with nature itself. And so

I don’t feel that sense here. I don’t feel that sense of

loss in this place. Even though I can see that, that there

have been different peoples who have lived, who have lived

here. It’s a nice place. It’s got good air, it has a good

feeling here.

GARY Any other feelings that have come to you here?

LORNA Mm ... it’s peaceful here. You know even with, even

with the gunshots in the background, it’s, there’s a sense

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of peace.

GARY Slate please.

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LORNA That’s when I’m sitting here, I’m thinking about, uh,

being in New Mexico last, last summer, the summer before and

seeing the, um, the ruins of the, of the Aztec era and

these, um, stones and these buildings, this architecture

actually, reminds me of those buildings that were there.

Similar kind of doorways and similar small rooms and windows

and, uh, places where people gathered and sat together and

people, where people worked and, uh, I, you know, see the

different notches in the rocks and wonder what, what those,

what those were, what those were for. And, um, trying to

imagine what life was, must have been like, you know,

without, um, without glass windows and to face the elements.

Um ...

GARY Does this place bring anything to mind, does it strengthen

or change or reinforce anything in your own feelings in your

own people, about your own ancestors?

LORNA Um ... I ... mm ... I guess it just reinfor-, what it

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reinforces is that, um, that here people also have a pa st

and, um, and that we all have a past, we all have a

connection to that past and who we are and what we do is

part of, is, um, built on that past. Um, so I guess I see

the passage of time that’s, you know, that’s what I see

here. And I, the other thing that I feel, I guess here, is

that, um, is the sense that, uh, so many, unlike, I think

our history, here there has been so much, um, more violence

and with people exerting their own world view and a way of

life, you know, upon other people. And, that’s something

that I don’t get a sense of when I’m home, on our land. And

I really, every part of this, this country, that, you know,

that I see, it’s, um, one group has thrown out another group

in order for, in order to exist. And it’s, it makes me, I

think under-, it brings me a little bit closer to

understanding, um, the co-, conflict that, uh, that, uh,

people have had in their, in their cultures, in their

histories, that I think we’re not so significant in what,

you know, when I hear about our history, it wasn’t, um, even

though there were conflicts and people did come and war on

us, but always the ... the prime movement was, was for peace

and, uh, for people to be able to, um, dialogue and talk

until they could come to some resolution. And so there was

always an opening that was made for resolution but for here,

but what I feel here, is that, um, is that they want

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resolution too, but resolution only if I can have it, you

know.

GARY How do you mean by that?

LORNA That if I can have this land, we can resolve the

conflict and, um, over the land. There’s very little

give ...

GARY Slate please.

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LORNA I’d say that, I still say, I think that, um, that what

this place I would hope would teach uh, young people like

Megan is that, is that we need to strive to find better ways

of uh, of living together in harmony and, um, and also that

um, that the way that people took care of their needs and

lived, lived on the land was, um, grew out of their, their

knowledge of the land, to grow out of, um, um, their sense

of architecture, their ways of building. We, we may be a

li-, we have more sophisticated tools but they were very

highly developed. They made structures that were, that

were, that were good, really good for their times and so

that, here I would want her to know about the continuity, of

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the continuity of life and, uh, to make that connection with

the past, but also, you know, to the present and into the

future.

The other thing that, um, that, that I would hope that she

would take away from here would be, uh, the sense of, I

guess the importance of, um, of knowing your history,

knowing where you’ve come from.

GARY Is there a particular image of this place that you’ll take

back with you?

LORNA I don’t really get the, any, I don’t have a sense, the

only, the best image I have here is really looking out over

the, uh, over the, the valley and feeling the wind. Um,

here I don’t feel a sense of, um, um, even though there’s

lots, there’s a sense of time, I don’t, I don’t really feel

it here. It’s, um, here it’s very much the present. There

are other parts of Israel that I think, uh, I feel more a

sense of (PLANE IN BKGD) ...

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GARY You were going to say?

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LORNA I was, um ... I was going to say that, um, that you

could see the remnants here, the rocks tell you that there,

that, and the formations that have been made in the rocks

tell you that, you know, people have been here for a long

time. Um ... but I guess the forests at home, there’s, here

it’s dry and the land is, um, the land feels old. It, and

at home though, there’s this also a sense of time that the

forest tells you and it’s, um, so there’s a different sense

of time, I guess is what it does.

GARY Where do you look ... is there a place at home that gives

you a sense of time? Where do you look if you want to go

and steep yourself in a sense of time?

LORNA There’s a place that, um, that my Mom and the old

ladies took me, used to take me to, to dig roots and, um,

and all around in that area there’s, there are really big

cedar trees and people (PLANE IN BKGD) have been going there

for ...

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GARY ... at home, where do you look?

LORNA I was, I was talking about, um, the place where my Mom

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and old ladies used to take me to dig roots and it’s in a

grove of really big cedar trees and, um, the earth there is

really, really soft so there were lots of, you know, you

could see that there were lots of dead vegetation that has

built up over the years and so, and that’s why they picked

that place, because there the roots were really always

strong and straight. And, um, and you could see evidence

that there, you know, like there had, that it’s been a place

where people have gone to, to dig the cedar root and, um,

for making baskets and then, all around in that place there

are sheshtkins(?), the, the subterranean houses, the winter

houses that people used to, to live in and you can still see

evidence of them. Some are, um, you can see, you know, the

depressions in the, in the earth and you can see some of the

logs. In other places you just, you see only the, a log

coming out of the ground at a certain angle and so, you know

that, that also was a sheshtkin(?) and so there, just from

the trees and from the earth and then knowing that there,

those were sheshtkin(?) that of, you know, different years,

so that, um, it gives that sense of history and, you know,

the sense of time.

GARY Did those people train you to see those things?

LORNA Mm, I’m sure that they trained me, but, um, I’m sure

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they trained me indirectly.

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LORNA ... um, Jerusalem towards Masada(?) that I remember the

last time was, like there, I really, that was really ...

GARY Ya, well maybe we’ll go looking for it. We’ll have a day

when we head out in that direction. We’ll find it. Okay.

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